[Law] Is this forward pass

[Decorily]

It wasn't



good point - so the pod stands flat with the 9. When he passes they take a step forward to catch the ball.

If they are flat then play on.

 

[didds]

FWIW, IMO - forward pass.

didds

 

[Pinky]

Whilst in theory it is a fwd pass, I am agree with mccroker's suggestion of not blowing the whistle and allowing the game to continue. i would suggest that a pass that is not C&O fwd and affected by wind and is gathered by stationary players behind the gain line is not a material infringement.

 

[OB..]

I think it would be an unnecessary relaxation of the law that would lead to much dissatisfaction and argument. It is likely to cause problems when applied differently by different referees. It is far too ill-defined. Players can and should adapt to the conditions themselves, not expect the referee to do it for them

 

[mcroker]

I wonder if the different schools of thought correlate with different levels of games reffed

 

[crossref]

Is it more a question of whether the Laws are to be interpreted legalistically , or common sensibly?

 

[Rich_NL]

The problem with common sense is that the sense is rarely common, and the common rarely sense... I don't think there's one single approach to materiality that can lay claim to being "the common sense approach". If you want to charge it the other way, it could be a question of whether the laws are to be applied fairly and evenly throughout the game, or only as the ref sees fit!

The level definitely enters into it, but to keep this somewhere in the realm of realism - it's not going to happen at grassroots, and no-one's going to call it at higher levels unless it's clear and obvious. I'd say at higher levels the call would be expected.

I've played once in a gale that blew straight along the pitch, it was immense fun! There were grubber kick restarts, scrums back to the kicker's own 22 for kicked dead through in-goal, players getting blown over and you couldn't hear any calls from more than about 15m away. The last thing you think of doing when you're leaning into the wind just to stay upright is a 15m spin pass out wide, though... I'll leave that to the profs.

 

[The Fat]

The #9 has deliberately thrown the ball forward.
Players need to adjust to the conditions of the day so if the pod needs to be deeper, the pass shorter etc etc.
In the first instance I would blow and award a scrum having a quick word with the 9, while the forwards are dicking around and having their usual breather before the scrum, that "I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and calling that forward pass unintentional", with that little "get my drift?" glance/look.

If you let it go he will throw the next one forward, and the next, and the next.


Let the players adjust. They will still get to play rugby if you've only had to ping him once.

 

[thepercy]

what if the wind was strong at their backs so that the pass was backwards but the pod had to stand in front of the SH to receive the ball?

Hint: [LAWS]A player who receives an unintentional throw forward is not offside. [/LAWS]

What if its not an unintentional thrown forward, but a backward or flat pass (from the arms, and that's the determining factor in Law) that goes forward due to wind or a weird bounce to players in a pod in front of the original passer?

I would call the OP pass forward, and blow the whistle.

 

[didds]

so just to be clear - if the pass was made directly backwards over a player's head, but the wind carried it forwards to a position in front of him - you would call that a forward pass?

didds

 

[crossref]

It's hard to define a clear red line in wind based scenarios.

I think that if a stationary player throws a pass that is caught in front of him, in practice it will be hard to play on

In real-life , luckily , players are moving the wind is howling and nothing is quite so clear and obvious ..

 

[The Fat]

What if its not an unintentional thrown forward, but a backward or flat pass (from the arms, and that's the determining factor in Law) that goes forward due to wind or a weird bounce to players in a pod in front of the original passer?

Were they in front of the passer when the ball was thrown? If so, they are in front of a team mate who last played the ball so technically they are offside

 

[The Fat]

so just to be clear - if the pass was made directly backwards over a player's head, but the wind carried it forwards to a position in front of him - you would call that a forward pass?

didds

If the ball is not thrown towards the opposition's DBL (i.e. the direction of the ball as it leaves the hands of the passer) then it is not a forward pass

 

[Camquin]

But the catcher may be offside

 

[didds]

If the ball is not thrown towards the opposition's DBL (i.e. the direction of the ball as it leaves the hands of the passer) then it is not a forward pass

and Id agree with you

ThePercy however said

What if its not an unintentional thrown forward, but a backward or flat pass (from the arms, and that's the determining factor in Law) that goes forward due to wind or a weird bounce to players in a pod in front of the original passer?

I would call the OP pass forward, and blow the whistle.

apologies - i should have made my attribution clearer.

didds

 

[The Fat]

and Id agree with you

ThePercy however said



apologies - i should have made my attribution clearer.

didds

See my previous response to ThePercy's post.
His scenario has two things to consider, (a) the legality of the pass and (b) the location of team mate who receives the ball.
ThePercy ties them together as if it is only the outcome of the pass that needs scrutiny by the referee when in fact the sequence for the referee's thought process is that the ball left the passer's hands not towards the opposition's DBL so it's play on (the ref would be best to communicate this decision in a loud voice whilst on the run) but now the ref has a pod of players, one of which presumably plays the ball, who are in an offside position when the ball was thrown so the ref must now assess this situation.

It would be the same if the original passer (let's call him the #9), instead of passing, had dropped the ball backwards and that odd shaped thing called a rugby ball bounced and then went to a player standing in front of #9.

 

[thepercy]

Assuming the catcher starts in front of the passer for both scenarios. If a legally backward pass goes forward through momentum/wind/odd bounce, then PK for offside. If the pass is unintentionally forward, then Scrum.

 

[crossref]

Assuming the catcher starts in front of the passer for both scenarios. If a legally backward pass goes forward through momentum/wind/odd bounce, then PK for offside. If the pass is unintentionally forward, then Scrum.

what if the catcher is level with the #9 when the pass is made, and takes two steps forward to catch it...
..or if he's running... and is behind the #9 when the pass is thrown, but catches the ball way in front of the back foot.


obviously you are going to say 'play on' but do you think you'd have problems selling that decision? In practice?