Ladies world cup 2014

[Dickie E]

I wonder if the IRB Junior World Championships were only reffed by 19 year olds or did the IRB take it a bit more seriously than that

 

[FightOrFlight]

I wonder if the IRB Junior World Championships were only reffed by 19 year olds or did the IRB take it a bit more seriously than that

Good point.

I'll lay my cards on the table here and say that if a referee out doing a decent level of social rugby was to drop some of the clangers that have been seen at this world cup then they would be sailing very close to demotion. The IRB cannot develop a game and hope to give it legitimacy if they are going to appoint referees who see it descend in to farce at times. Gender should not be a barrier...but it need not be an obstacle either.

 

[Browner]

I wonder if the IRB Junior World Championships were only reffed by 19 year olds or did the IRB take it a bit more seriously than that

Thats not entirely relevant, The worlds best u20's matches are a significant step up from women's rugby (in my assessment)

 

[Dickie E]

Good point.

I'll lay my cards on the table here and say that if a referee out doing a decent level of social rugby was to drop some of the clangers that have been seen at this world cup then they would be sailing very close to demotion. The IRB cannot develop a game and hope to give it legitimacy if they are going to appoint referees who see it descend in to farce at times. Gender should not be a barrier...but it need not be an obstacle either.

Its a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't quandary for IRB.

If they appointed on merit then there'd be howls of "how can you expect female refs to develop if they don't get the big games"?

If it was up to me I'd only select from the pool of refs who have officiated at the highest non-test level in their country/region (ie S15, RaboDirect Pro 12, Aviva, ITM Cup, Currie Cup, etc).

If the ladies want a a Test berth then work your way up through the ranks.

 

[Dickie E]

Thats not entirely relevant, The worlds best u20's matches are a significant step up from women's rugby (in my assessment)

and there would be 19 year old male referees who would be a significant step up from any of the female referees.

Blind Freddy can see what is going on and there is an argument for affirmative action. However, while it may be good for the refs it is a dis-service to the players and the game in general. Referees are there to be accurate & empathetic adjudicators of the Laws. They shouldn't be part of the social engineering exercise.

 

[ChrisR]

Qualified or not, his choice of timing isn't appropriate. The time to deal with that subject is pre-tourno & probably in the lobbying lead time before appointments are decided. Not mid tourno as comments of that nature merely undermine.

I'm sure the issue was raised very early on but fell victim to the equality agenda. The comment was not a tirade to the worlds press but an aside in a blog that has a very local distribution.

To be fair, without the level of top level competition that exists in men's rugby when & where are women going to get the opportunity to referee games of this magnitude? But that begs the point.

 

[B52 REF]

I am out here with an "Official" hat on and some of these girls are my friends so i cannot comment on specifics till post tornament. But for information; !)the post match review and analysis of each officials performance is as rigourous and honest as you would expect in a world cup. 2) the debate over women only ref panels is being had here as well (particularly amongst the journos and coaches in the bar) and the issue is sure to form part of the post tournament review (which coaches have input to), 3) USAR have withdrawn peter's blog and an even more "full and frank" later post match interview (i can let you know the full details post tourney) 4) leah,hodders and amy are qualified to ref the highest level of mens rugby in their home nations (and if they don't actually get a prem game their successors may one day), 5) ireland are brilliant and rule the bar every night though wisely lost the table tennis to the refs.

 

[SimonSmith]

Thanks B52. I'll be interested to know about Pete Steinberg's reaction. I've met him, and refereed his College team. Even when we disagreed on a point of law (about which I now think I was wrong) he was nothing but class personified. I also hear good things about him from his players.

Leah is a good referee, no question. But I can guarantee you, from experience, that being National Panel, or the level below that, over her does NOT mean that you are qualified to do that level. USA R has at least one agenda, if not two.

 

[B52 REF]

SIMON- I too like him and admire his honesty (some of the stuff he said about only having men coaches/managers was interesting as well) . i said "qualified"; as a lawyer i am "qualified " to convey your house but my neice has just wisely requested i hire a "proper lawyer"

 

[B52 REF]

actually guys- straw poll - from what you've seen - what level of game (use the gold rfu standard please level1-13 ) do you think you are watching ( i know there is an apple and pears argument) but say as a ref manager/coach what level ref would you appoint ,or as a ref what level would you want to be before doing one of the games...(i can give you the irb assessment and the coaches/hacks one later- or even wrwc stash to whoever gets the latter 2 correct.)

 

[Jacko]

actually guys- straw poll - from what you've seen - what level of game (use the gold rfu standard please level1-13 ) do you think you are watching ( i know there is an apple and pears argument) but say as a ref manager/coach what level ref would you appoint ,or as a ref what level would you want to be before doing one of the games...(i can give you the irb assessment and the coaches/hacks one later- or even wrwc stash to whoever gets the latter 2 correct.)

I was out in Madrid doing the European Qualifiers. The games were significantly less skilful and intense than the level 3 games which had constituted the bulk of my season. I would have put them as about level 5.

Clearly, the tournament itself is a step up on the qualifier and comes with additional pressures. I would be entirely comfortable with any of the regular Nat 1 refs (level 3) doing the games.

 

[Browner]

I'm sure the issue was raised very early on but fell victim to the equality agenda. The comment was not a tirade to the worlds press but an aside in a blog that has a very local distribution.

.

An International Coach blogging mid tournament on the "official USAR site" expects a wider audience than locals

We'll await the post tourno outcomes....

 

[ianh5979]

The English womens premiership is normally refereed by level5 , so I would agree that the internationals should be level 3 possibly top of level 4 at the least

 

[Simon Thomas]

Top 4 teams level 3-4 the next 8 level 5 and thereafter struggling to get above level 7.
The Final itself I would rank at a full L3 on evidence of the last Guildford Final.

RFUW Premiership is appointed as L5 to Group Referees. I was appointed to observe the referee who did last season's final match Richmond v Bristol at Newbury under lights, which Richmond won to take the league title. Numerous internationals were playing and I rated it as a mid L6 match with less physical challenges and more management challenges than a men's L6.

 

[buff]

Top 4 teams level 3-4 the next 8 level 5 and thereafter struggling to get above level 7.
The Final itself I would rank at a full L3 on evidence of the last Guildford Final.

RFUW Premiership is appointed as L5 to Group Referees. I was appointed to observe the referee who did last season's final match Richmond v Bristol at Newbury under lights, which Richmond won to take the league title. Numerous internationals were playing and I rated it as a mid L6 match with less physical challenges and more management challenges than a men's L6.

What kind of management issue would come up that would make it different from the men?

 

[Dickie E]

What kind of management issue would come up that would make it different from the men?

If it rains they have to be coaxed to stay on the field

JUST JOKING!!!

 

[ChrisR]

Dickie E, that is funny because when I asked my daughter why she took up the game in college her reply was:

"Dad, when in our society is it OK to throw another woman down in the mud?"

Yes, the little darling played prop.

 

[Dickie E]

"dad, when in our society is it ok to throw another woman down in the mud?"

tackler release!!!

 

[Simon Thomas]

What kind of management issue would come up that would make it different from the men?

Very few, perhaps less confrontational challenges to decisions in my experience. The top Women's sides are very well coached, have high skills levels, etc just not as fast as the men's game so the level of management challenges are closer to the men's game than the speed and physicality.

So in the RFUW Premiership I watched the management challenges were men's L5 equiv and physicality / speed bottom end of L6

 

[SimonSmith]

I'd agree with Simon.

I did the English National Women's 7s semi a few - OK, a lot - of years ago.
Pace over the ground was incredible (Commonwealth standard sprinter, natch), but the intensity at the tackle and in the hit was not quite the same. True, there were some women who were at that level, but overall, not really.