Lineout Signal

[bill_d]

At risk of being ridiculed, is the refs raised arm after a lineout simply a signal that it's now open play. Thanks.

 

[ckuxmann]

No the arm goes up to say the lineout is still a lineout and or the backs to stay 10 meters

 

[Adam]

A referee will often raise his arm to indicate that the lineout has not ended and the backs must remain 10 metres away. When the referee drops his hand the backs may now come up.

The reason you often see the arm raised for so long is because if a maul forms after a lineout the hindmost foot of the hindmost player must cross the line of touch for the lineout to be deemed over.

 

[duncanb]

Bill Hi
Most of your post may have been about about 1 incident but it does not mean that we don't answer questions from fans/parents/coach's who are unsure about any issue the answer may not be what you want to here but many will give you an unbiased view contray to some recent post's and most will engage in debate personally I read all post and decide the Quality replies as I see you nnow posting on other topics you will make your own mind up about who is a good source of info and who isn't

 

[Dixie]

bill-d, you are now on the stock-in-trade topic of this forum, so you (and indeed anyone else) have a right to expect (and by and large will receive) a courteous and hopefully informative answer to any question that interests you about the ins and outs of rugby reffing. In this case, as others have said, it indicates to the backs when they may encroach within 10m, and to the forwards when they may leave the area bounded by the 5m and 15m lines. The backs in particular have a hard time judging when the hindmost foot of a maul or ruck formed within the lineout has moved beyond the line of touch, and so this convention has grown up to avoid "gotcha" PK's for genuine misjudgements.

 

[bill_d]

thanks gents

 

[Toby Warren]

thanks gents

you are welcome, as others say the posters on here are really keen to help and learn from each other's experiences.

Hope you will stay around and contribute to the forum. The more non refs we get the better in my view.

Now is there any chance in getting you to take up the whistle?

 

[bill_d]

Now is there any chance in getting you to take up the whistle?

Funnily enough my wife says I spend so much time chuntering on about it I should get out there and talk to someone who's interested! What's the training path?

 

[Adam]

Funnily enough my wife says I spend so much time chuntering on about it I should get out there and talk to someone who's interested! What's the training path?

England, Wales or somewhere else?

 

[Toby Warren]

A convert! Let us know where you're located and we can facilitate. Come and join us it's a great challenge - hard but really rewarding.

 

[Phil E]

Bill

I notice your profile says you are in England.

Have a look HERE for the refereeing pathway and access to courses.

You need to do an Entry Level Referee Award (ELRA). This can be done through your club, or by looking on the RFU website (above) for a list of other course venues.
Once you complete the ELRA parts 1 & 2 you are classed as a Club Referee and can referee within your own club.
If you want to advance beyond that you can contact your local Referees Society and complete ELRA part 3. This route gets you further training and advice from the Society, who will monitor and mentor your progress.

As well as ELRA there is also a Refereeing Mini Midi course if you just want to referee your (or other) kids up to the under12 age grade.

If you have any questions after reading this, just ask.

 

[Dixie]

If you have any questions after reading this, just ask.

An obvious question goes to cost; in many parts of the country, the clubs and/or the Society will pay for part or all of ELRA, so it does not rest wholly with the individual.

 

[crossref]

An obvious question goes to cost; in many parts of the country, the clubs and/or the Society will pay for part or all of ELRA, so it does not rest wholly with the individual.

for instance my club pay for ELRAs - -all we ask is that there is a genuine intention to actually put it to use and get out there with the whistle. ie this isn't the place you go to see if you like it...

 

[MrQeu]

As the topic has gone to that, and after reading your latest posts, may I rise some questions about pathways in refereeing in England?

Do you need to be part of a club to become a referee at first instance (the ELRAs 1&2 you all mention)? Can freelance referees (i.e. non affiliated with any club) exist at lower levels (before what you call level 3 ELRA)? If so, how/who would appoint the matches the ref will be involved?


I ref another sport and some time ago had the chance to meet a RU ref here in Spain and we talked about the relationship between refs and unions/societies in both our sports and seemed quite alike, but different from what I read form England.

RU refs in Spain are within the national or a regional union (called federaciones in spanish) in the form or a workgroup called comitee (comité in spanish) that is in charge of educating the refs and appointing refs to the matches to be played that week. There are associations, but are not official and tend to be much more about promoting rugby and rugby refereeing to the public and leisure to the refs than being real places where rguby refereeing is discused.

 

[OB..]

In England you can become a qualified ref by taking the ELRA exams, but you only become a Club referee that way. Your club can only appoint you to matches involving your club. If you join a society, you can be appointed to appropriate matches by that society anywhere within their area, and perhaps also on exchange to other areas.

 

[Simon Thomas]

No you do not have to be a club member, and about 10-15% of our Society's referees are not.

You do ELRA1 and 2 and join the Society. We appoint (very carefully) to 6 matches to qualify for ELRA 3 and check for safety in the first match and do an assessment for grading at match 5 or 6. Some Society referees may never get beyond level 12 (our lowest) and are very happy to referee the 3rd or 4th XV, or perhaps Ladies 2nd XV rugby.

Many referees prefer to spend a season doing U13 / U14 / U15 etc matches and then join the Society to complete ELRA 3.
In some cases we might advise a new no-club member referee to join a club first and do these youth matches if they do not have a lot of playing experience.

The scale is very different in England to Spain and there is over 100 years historical legacy, traditions and infrastructure.
The Society makes match appointments, recruits and trains / develops / assesses referees, holds monthly meetings - increasingly we are also working with clubs and embryonic club sub-societies as well. The objective is to provide an appropriately qualified trained safe and compteent referee at every level of game for clubs in our area (county).

The Society works closely with the County Union and RFU Referee Department who provide lots of guidance and training material, full time employees to work with us and they organise the Elite, National Panel and Groups.

There are 45 or so Societies across England with 5,500 members. 12-15 referees are selected in each of the four regions (London & SE, South West, Midlands and North) as Level 5 group refs (with L5 coasches & assessors), some of these may be selected for the National Panel of 45 or so referees (again with Panel Coaches and Assessors) and finally 6-8 are the Elite Referees (Messrs Barnes, Pearson, Doyle, Small, etc) who do Premiership, Heineken and some of them are awarded IRB appointments (at Elite level again with dedicated coaches, assessors, and advisers).

 

[Dixie]

Do you need to be part of a club to become a referee at first instance (the ELRAs 1&2 you all mention)? Can freelance referees (i.e. non affiliated with any club) exist at lower levels (before what you call level 3 ELRA)? If so, how/who would appoint the matches the ref will be involved?

If a non-affiliated individual paid for his own ELRA, he then needs to obtain some game time. That can be achieved by getting in touch with his three most local clubs, and offereing his services, Whether he gets any take-up is a different matter, but as ageneral rule we are not so replete with refs that we can afford to turn down the services of willing volunteers.

 

[didds]

If the self-funded etc ref gets any appoinements thru local clubs for their youth games would he not need a CRB check as well? Which unfortunately AIUI would be almost impossible if not done thru a club or society? Its for this reason that a chum is cleared thru our club because as a CB selector and no other involvement there was apparently no pathway for him to gain a CRB.

That was a couple of years ago mind


didds

 

[colesy]

Apologies for jumping into an existing thread and not introducing myself properly but given the way the thread has gone a little off topic I hope you don't mind too much as what I have to say is relevant to the more recent posts.

I recently booked myself on to the ELRA Parts 1 and 2 next month - I wanted a challenge and had in the back of my mind that I'd like to try whistling some day. Having done some research I thought it would be sensible to get affiliated to my local club and I made contact to introduce myself. To say I was welcomed with open arms would be an understatement. I've been bought beer by the Chairman (I bought him one back of course), had my membership fee waived because I paid for the ELRA myself (the club would have paid otherwise), been introduced to some of the other club referees, coaches and officials. I've been afforded every opportunity to train up properly by reffing junior matches after I do the ELRA (need CRB check) until I develop sufficient skills and confidence to take senior matches, invited to training sessions, club functions etc, put in contact with the local Refs Association. Free issue of club shirt, tie and so on.

I don't know if I've been lucky in finding a very forward thinking club but everything that I've heard suggests that most clubs would be delighted to receive an approach from a 'ref to be'.

 

[Dixie]

Hi Colesy - welcome. A very useful post - thank you. Feel free to raise any point that bothers you as you progress with your refereeing. Good luck.