Mark from a PK

[Mike Selig]

Gents,

Both my TJs today were of the opinion that you couldn't take a mark from a PK (that is, red kick a PK aiming for touch, Blue player inside 22 catches ball and calls mark, I awarded it).

I was of the opinion that they were wrong (and was ready to get a law-book out, but mine was from 2005 and I wasn't keen to get into arguments with those who had kindly assisted myself during the day).

Who was right?

I couldn't find anything in law to suggest that I was wrong (am aware you cannot mark from a restart, but you'd have thought if the same held from a PK they'd have added that in the same sentence?).

 

[PaulDG]

Gents,

Both my TJs today were of the opinion that you couldn't take a mark from a PK (that is, red kick a PK aiming for touch, Blue player inside 22 catches ball and calls mark, I awarded it).

They were wrong. You can call a mark from a PK.

You can also take a QT from a PK to touch (providing all the conditions for a QT are met).

I couldn't find anything in law to suggest that I was wrong (am aware you cannot mark from a restart, but you'd have thought if the same held from a PK they'd have added that in the same sentence?).

No. Restart kicks and 22s are the only time a team must kick so certain exceptions exist (no Mark and the normal maul turnover should a maul form round the catcher doesn't apply).

Teams don't have to kick penalties (there is the scrum option), so no get out clauses.

 

[Mike Selig]

Good to know. I was fairly confident but they were both adamant. None of the players (U14s, great bunch of lads) complained, apparently a spectator mentioned it to TJ number 1.

 

[Robert Burns]

You can also take a QT from a PK to touch (providing all the conditions for a QT are met).

I think players would have to be offside for this in most cases, but you are right, there is nothing stopping them if they get a blown back kick.

 

[Dickie E]

Restart kicks and 22s are the only time a team must kick so certain exceptions exist (no Mark and the normal maul turnover should a maul form round the catcher doesn't apply).

Yes it does. Doesn't apply for a kick in general play.

 

[Taff]

Yes it does. Doesn't apply for a kick in general play.

The easiest way I found to remember this is

KO + DO = TO

ie Mauls directly from Kick Offs and Drop Outs = Turnover

 

[Simon Thomas]

Mike - we had just this question before our recent Committee meeting and our TDO and Appt Sec (both Panel Referees) said yes you can make a mark from a PK - I agreed fully and we agree with PaulDG.

We actually looked at the Law references to check.

 

[Phil E]

The easiest way I found to remember this is

KO + DO = TO

ie Mauls directly from Kick Offs and Drop Outs = Turnover

Or KANT

Kick Ahead = No Turnover

 

[Taff]

Or KANT. Kick Ahead = No Turnover

I prefer yours.

 

[chopper15]

Ref.PaulDG:

You can also take a QT from a PK to touch (providing all the conditions for a QT are met).

Trying to conjure up the scenario that would allow that other than a QT performed by the kicker's team?

 

[PaulDG]

Yes it does. Doesn't apply for a kick in general play.

Dickie. Yes, you're right. That's actually what I thought I'd written but it didn't quite come out as intended.

 

[SimonSmith]

Ref.PaulDG:

You can also take a QT from a PK to touch (providing all the conditions for a QT are met).

Trying to conjure up the scenario that would allow that other than a QT performed by the kicker's team?

Stop trying to conjure.
There isn't one - that's the scenario to which he was alluding!

 

[crossref]

Ref.PaulDG:

You can also take a QT from a PK to touch (providing all the conditions for a QT are met).

Trying to conjure up the scenario :

OK this could be a very cool move..

- PK to Red 7 or 8m from try line, not far from touch line
- position a player in touch slightly behind the mark
- kick the ball directly to the player in touch (behind mark, not offside)
- player in touch does a QT to team mate who arrives, on the burst, coming down the 5m line..

I bet he'd score.. blue would be so caught on the hop!

 

[OB..]

OK this could be a very cool move..

- PK to Red 7 or 8m from try line, not far from touch line
- position a player in touch slightly behind the mark
- kick the ball directly to the player in touch (behind mark, not offside)
- player in touch does a QT to team mate who arrives, on the burst, coming down the 5m line..

I bet he'd score.. blue would be so caught on the hop!

Ingenious, but surely the opponents (even if surprised) will simply move forward to the line of touch when the kick goes into touch, thus cutting down the space for the player on the burst?

 

[chopper15]

Two attackers following up a PK dropping directly into touch just short of the GL with only the FB to foil the QT.

He traps the ball expertly with his foot, quickly steps aside leaving the attackers to complete the QT and score.

Try, penalty or LO defending ball?:hap:

 

[dave_clark]

why would the defending fullback trap the ball, and then stand aside to allow the attackers to score?

 

[TheBFG]

Two attackers following up a PK dropping directly into touch just short of the GL with only the FB to foil the QT.

He traps the ball expertly with his foot, quickly steps aside leaving the attackers to complete the QT and score.

Try, penalty or LO defending ball?:hap:

No LO, within 5m of GL :Looser:

"Bring it back guys"

 

[Camquin]

The reason for standing aside is to avoid a YC.
It is analogous to Ben Youngs being dismissed for throwing the ball away.
Why he is not getting back on the field behind the LOT to defend is another matter.

19.2 (b) does not say you cannot take a quick throw in within 5m of the goal line. All it say is between where the ball went into touch and the goal line.

You cannot take a line out within 5m but as you do not need to take the QT from the point where you would form the lineout is that relevant?

Would you prevent someone taking a QT within 5m of their own line?

Camquin

 

[Casey Bee]

No LO, within 5m of GL :Looser:

"Bring it back guys"

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before... there is nothing in LoG that says at QT cannot be taken within 5m of the Goal Line. You may need to retract your :Looser: !!!

 

[SimonSmith]

I that that was in context of a defending team throwing in closer than 5m from their goal line.

i'm not so sure the same applies for an attacking team