New Forum for Minis

[davidgh]

I think it would be helpful to have a seperate forum on here for u12 Mini Rugby.

Leave the existing Junior forum for Youth Rugby u13 to u19

Start a new forum for Continuum Rugby?

Youth and Continuum have very little in cmmon, especially when it comes to refereeing issues.

 

[Phil E]

Just use the League forum :biggrin: :bday:

 

[Dixie]

I agree that it's undesirable to lump Junior and Continuum together; but by the same token, it shouldn't just be Continuum - we are an international forum, so U.12 and younger. Enables our Scottish, Welsh and Irish contributors to use it, not to mention anyone from the Southern hemisphere.

It may not be well used; but I think it is worth putting in place.

 

[crossref]

I agree as well - except that u12 ISN'T mini, is it. It's MIDI

Mini-Tag - U7 and U8
Mini - U9 and U10
Midi - U11 and U12

 

[PaulDG]

I agree as well - except that u12 ISN'T mini, is it. It's MIDI

Well in some places not too far away, it's called Leprechaun rugby and in others it's Dragon rugby..

(And even in some parts of RFU land, it's mini-Tag until U11)

 

[crossref]

state primary schools? yes. sigh.
and in independent schools they are playing 15-a-side in U12, sigh again.

 

[MiniRef]

No such thing as the Continuum anymore:wow: . It's now Age Grade Regulations.

 

[Pinky]

In Scotland they are called Age Grade Law Variations and apply right across the board to all rugby - school or club. Up to Primary 7 (about under 12) they play across the pitch. Above that (the other forum) is full pitch. I used to be one of the sad individuals that knew all the variations by heart, but growing offspring and refereeing more senior rugby now means I need to read up before I do a mini game. A number of our society refs still do minis, especially for tournaments. You don't get so much criticism from the side line wearing an "official" official shirt

 

[Dixie]

You don't get so much criticism from the side line wearing an "official" official shirt

I suspect that many who have coached at U.12 in England shudder at the sight of a Society jersey, rather more than when the keen dad does the job. In many cases (but by no means all), a Society man drafted in for a tournament overestimates the base level of the players and can prevent a game breaking out.

 

[Pinky]

Your society men may behave like that :wink:

 

[PaulDG]

In Scotland they are called Age Grade Law Variations and apply right across the board to all rugby - school or club.

In theory ours do to.

But in practice, independent schools play to our Age Grade variations until U12; state schools play Tag until U12.

At U12, most schools, independent or state, play more or less our U13 junior rugby variations.

There are good reasons for the divide; schools have classes of 30 to cope with and don't have time to mark/cone out special small pitches. Clubs don't often have the space for a full size pitch for the U12s.

The annoying thing is that the differences aren't officially recognised. The RFU pretends everyone plays to its regulations.

 

[PaulDG]

In many cases (but by no means all), a Society man drafted in for a tournament overestimates the base level of the players and can prevent a game breaking out.

Thanks for the "no means all" comment there Dixie.

Yes, what Dixie says is true; in England, most Society refs never do games below U15 and so not only do they not know the variations for mini/midi matches they tend to totally overestimate the skills, knowledge and intents of the kids.

In England, below U12, repeated offences are always down to either lack of skill or the kids are doing it wrong because they've been coached by a well meaning (or over competitive) coach who has coached them to do something incorrectly.

Penalising the kids for either of those just causes a load of upset kids and parents and a referee who will swear to never do mini/midis again.

U11 down in England* involves a lot of coaching from whoever's in the middle with the whistle.

From U12 up things start to change; skills build up and the kids who haven't given rugby up to play football (or the xbox) tend to be keen and watch the professionals cheating on the telly and try to copy them. But it's still a start to change. Most with any skill will try to play as properly as they can. Most of the others just don't have the skills [yet].

*My experience of Welsh teams is different. I assume because rugby is more in the culture that side of the river, Welsh U11 and below teams seem to be keener and better coached to cheat than English ones. This may also be due to the Welsh regulations requiring qualified referees - as everyone knows the ref is qualified, perhaps coaching to take advantage of the ref is "fair game" there?

 

[Pinky]

Up until a few years ago, "rugby" schools did their own thing, 15 aside from U12, but this was changed an all must use the same variations, although numbers can be increased from 10 to 13 for U12 and from 13 to 15 for U13.

Also in Scotland, it is supposed to be a qualified referee, but often club or qualified coach. But you are right, there is a need to coach from the centre. Junior games used to be allowed to have a coach on the pitch too, but that was stopped last year. IMHO a retrograde step for the really young.

I believe there is some intention to harmonise age grade laws across the various unions, which would be a good thing if tours are to happen. I had an issue with a Welsh touring side in that they were allowed at the particular age to target the ball, which is not allowed in Scotland until older and where the tackled player had to be allowed to play the ball away from the tackle. (Not cheating, just different law variations) It was quite difficult to keep a fair contest between the teams by constantly reminding of the rules, and there were some adverse sideline comments. It was only in the bar afterwards when it was explained that I had to follow the SRU age grade variations that it was appreciated what I had done and that the game had been competitive and really enjoyed by the players.

 

[Robert Burns]

No Probs. I'll add it in a bit

 

[crossref]

at U13, U14 I find the reverse - the jobbing Society Ref making an unaccustomed visit down to U14 tends to underestimate the skills of the players. All of sudden offences that are routinely penalised at this level (SH feeding, flankers breaking early, SH offside, tap penalties not tapped etc) are suddenly treated with kid gloves, the ref indulging the 'kids' with 2nd chances, and on-field coaching.... under the impression that they don't know what they are doing....

Now certainly if you ref an U14 development squad from a struggling innercity club you might do some coaching on field. But the Society ref has probably been drafted into a Div 1 top of the table clash between two teams who know very well what they are doing..

 

[crossref]

opps sorry! don't know how that happened!

 

[davidgh]

No Probs. I'll add it in a bit

Thanks Rob

I suggest titling the Current Junior Rugby Forum - Junior/Youth Rugby u13 to u19

and a new forum - preferably physically adjacent in the list called

Mini Rugby - u6 to u12

Most clubs include u11/12 in Minis, though I know the Continuum calls this Midi

One could have a forum for Tag, Mini and Midi separately, might be useful, but suspect it would be overkill??

Guys - thanks for the very precise corrections - this is a broad topic proposal - well aware of all this stuff ..... except

When did they change the name of the Continuum?? reference please

 

[davidgh]

I suspect that many who have coached at U.12 in England shudder at the sight of a Society jersey, rather more than when the keen dad does the job. In many cases (but by no means all), a Society man drafted in for a tournament overestimates the base level of the players and can prevent a game breaking out.

Totally agree - though far from all - MOST society refs at Mini Festivals have a VERY SCANT understanding of the Continuum, and if they have browsed it, they haven't reffed it since last county festival a year ago. Either bring in a specific Mini-Midi Law Accreditation or ask Societies NATIONWIDE to desist from providing Mini Refs.

1. THey say they hate it anyway!
2. Generally they really don't have a clue (notable exceptions)

THere is also a problem with burly academy players who know the game well, but haven't got a clue about the Continuum.

Give me a poor dad/coach any day!! at least they have a clue

 

[MiniRef]

When did they change the name of the Continuum?? reference please

I have an email from the RFU (in response to my asking this question) from October 2010 which states:

It's all regulation 15 on RFU.com and the term ‘continuum’ has been dropped in favour of Age Grade Regulations goverining 6-18

 

[crossref]

Age Grade Regulations has such a good, formalr ring to it, doesn't it?

but it still contains the sorry cop-out for u12

1.7 Schools that have traditionally played 15-a-side in Year 7 may continue to do so for now, with their Head Teacher’s agreement. They should be aware, however, that in all other Schools and Clubs, Year 7s (i.e. Under 12 but may also be in some Under 13 teams) play Midi Rugby which is the RFU preferred mode for delivering rugby in this stage of their development. It is expected that such schools should be planning to switch to Midi rugby.

In other words

here are the regulations but, hey, you can do what you like'

Why can't the RFU get a grip on this most basic of things: what are the Laws of the game?