[Golden Oldies] Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

[The Fat]

Right to free speech being tested at a whole new level in the US.

A woman who encouraged her suicidal boyfriend in a barrage of text messages to take his own life should have her involuntary manslaughter conviction thrown out because it "violated her right to free speech".
In urging the US Supreme Court to hear her appeal, Michelle Carter's lawyers called her conviction in Conrad Roy III's death "unprecedented" and said her case raises crucial questions about whether "words alone" are enough to hold someone responsible for another person's suicide.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Oh, and the Australian Government might want to look at their own Public Service Guidelines before they go bringing in legislation that allows employees the right to say what they like, when they like about their employer's policies.

https://www.apsc.gov.au/making-public-comment-social-media-guide-employees

The Code of Conduct is set out in section 13 of the Public Service Act 1999 (the Act). The Code’s behavioural standards are directed at securing public confidence in the integrity of the APS. The Code creates binding obligations on all APS employees about how they conduct themselves at work and, to some extent, in their private lives.
For example, section 13(11) requires APS employees to behave at all times in a way that upholds:

1. the APS Values and Employment Principles; and
2. the integrity and good reputation of the employee’s agency and the APS.

It is quite clear that criticising the the government, a department, a minister, or the Prime Minister on social media will almost always be considered a breach of the Public Service Code of Conduct, and could lead to disciplinary action, up to and including termination.

I see no reason whatsoever why private employers should not be entitled to expect the same behaviour from their employees.

 

[damo]

Yeah, he's right - that is, domestic violence is not exclusively "male partner beats up female partner". There is plenty of domestic violence where the male is the victim but its rarely reported, mostly because of male pride. Most men would not want to admit to their chums that they are getting beat up by a woman.

Anyone who denies that men can be victims of domestic violence is living in Loopy Lou land.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-luton-crown-court-bedfordshire-a8309921.html

Yes he is right to an extent. I work as a Family Lawyer and I can testify to the fact that domestic violence goes both ways.

However I need to add that physical domestic violence tends to be predominantly male on female; and the worst cases are even more predominantly male on female.

Importantly the law does not define domestic violence in such narrow terms as physical abuse. Stalking, harassment, smearing publicly, emotional harm, using children as weapons and exposing children to alienating and insidious comments about the other all constitute domestic violence. These are an equal opportunity activity for both sexes. Those type of behaviours can be more destructive and have longer ramifications for parents and children than physical abuse can.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Yes he is right to an extent. I work as a Family Lawyer and I can testify to the fact that domestic violence goes both ways.

However I need to add that physical domestic violence tends to be predominantly male on female; and the worst cases are even more predominantly male on female.

Importantly the law does not define domestic violence in such narrow terms as physical abuse. Stalking, harassment, smearing publicly, emotional harm, using children as weapons and exposing children to alienating and insidious comments about the other all constitute domestic violence. These are an equal opportunity activity for both sexes. Those type of behaviours can be more destructive and have longer ramifications for parents and children than physical abuse can.

That may apply to reported cases, but this University of Otago study suggests that the split might be more even..

https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-hera...c-violence-study-presents-challenging-picture

 

[crossref]

What does Rugby New Zealand's CoC have to say about it ?

 

[Ian_Cook]

What does Rugby New Zealand's CoC have to say about it ?

http://www.nzrpa.co.nz/pdf/Appendix-2-handouts.pdf


Note the highlighted parts below

Players must adhere to:

• New Zealand Rugby’s rules, regulations, and protocols (e.g. Anti-Corruption and Betting Regulations, the Respect and Inclusion Protocol and the Team Function Protocol).
• World Rugby Regulations
• Collective Employment Agreement (which also covers individual playing contract terms and conditions)
• New Zealand law (e.g. the Crimes Act)

If players breach the expected standards, then a misconduct process may arise. You will always have an opportunity to explain your actions.

A misconduct allegation could range from ordinary (less serious) misconduct to serious misconduct

Examples – Serious Misconduct:

• Committing a doping offence
• Gambling on the outcome of any game
• Committing a criminal offence
• Actions, conduct, comments or behaviour that offends or harms others and/or the game
• Repeated misconduct

 

[SimonSmith]

If true, then I agree, but if you are talking about Reece, well he didn't get a pass.

In October 2018, he was discharged without conviction by Judge Denise Clark (Hamilton District Court). She said

"a conviction would have ended the Fijian-born player's Irish contract and that would have been out of all proportion to the gravity of the offending".

"I have considered your circumstances and it's certainly not the case that because you are good at playing rugby that you get the opportunity to be discharged without conviction."

Judge Clark accepted that the victim had forgiven Reece, that the couple were undergoing counselling, Reece had admitted a problem with alcohol and had been sober for three months. Reece expressed remorse and apologised at a restorative justice meeting, and he was supported in court by a young woman and other associates.

Judge Clark took into account his early guilty plea, the fact it was his first time before the courts. He was ordered to pay his victim $750 within 28 days for emotional harm reparation.

It was after all this, after his Irish contract (to play for Connaught) fell through, that Crusader's coach Scott Robertson offered Reece a lifeline, first to play in the pre-season, and later to play the full season after another player was injured. Anyone who knows anything about NZ Rugby, especially the Crusaders, will know that such a lifeline offered to a player in Reece's position, comes with conditions as to their conduct on and off the field.

Now while I am all for punishment for crimes, I am not in favour of punishing and punishing and punishing endlessly. If we simply punish Reece in this way he ends up consigned to the scrap heap, and we've fixed nothing. He is providing for a family so it punishes them too; if he is providing for his partner, we end up punishing the victim. The whole focus in dealing with domestic violence in NZ isn't on punishment, its on prevention; its on having friends and family getting offenders to stop by getting them to get help..

This is one of a series of anti-domestic violence TV ads currently running in New Zealand.

This country has the shameful record of having the highest rate of family violence in the developed world, but it has been shown time and again that this sort of approach is far more effective than punishing and threatening punishment and throwing people in a dumpster.

Nah. This is the slope that the NFL has gone down, finding any excuse to let the player play.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Nah. This is the slope that the NFL has gone down, finding any excuse to let the player play.

Yes, finally common ground with Simon Smith.

I've seen it described as:

All professional sportsmen, especially the high profile ones, represent their sport at all times, so they are in effect "at work" 24/7/365. That is part of the price you pay for having a million dollar contract to kick and throw around a ball. If you don't like those conditions, you need to go find another profession.

One strike, you're out.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Nah. This is the slope that the NFL has gone down, finding any excuse to let the player play.

Well, the judge (not NZR) made it clear that this is not the case. Judges don't tend to lie when they hand down their rulings.

Now, I can fully understand that this approach might not work in gun-totin', racist 'merica, especially in peckerwood country, but is has been shown to work very well in this country

Would you prevent a person in any other form of employment from ever working again because of a single legal transgression when they were young?

 

[crossref]

Would you prevent a person in any other form of employment from ever working again because of a single legal transgression when they were young?

Am I employing him to be a role model ?

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Would you prevent a person in any other form of employment from ever working again because of a single legal transgression when they were young?

Can you discriminate based on age of applicants at your office?

Now, I can fully understand that this approach might not work in gun-totin', racist 'merica, especially in peckerwood country, but is has been shown to work very well in this country

Where is peckerwood?, and I think it is a county. But it may be a porno name.

Yes we are racist; CDC: 36% of Abortions Abort Black Babies. Black population is about 13-14%. approx 120,000 per year. Not good.

 

[SimonSmith]

if it involved violence against the person, yes.

 

[Dickie E]

Yes we are racist; CDC: 36% of Abortions Abort Black Babies. Black population is about 13-14%. approx 120,000 per year. Not good.

I thought abortions were good. Women taking control of their own bodies, etc

 

[Ian_Cook]

if it involved violence against the person, yes.

Tom (21 yrs old) punches Jimmy.
He's charged with assault.
Its his first offence of any kind.
He's found guilty, discharged without conviction and fined $1000.

From your perspective, he is now never, ever allowed to work in any employment, ever again, for the rest of his life?

That is a very good way of throwing a young man on the scrap heap by driving him into a life of crime. You just created a serious problem for all his future victims for the next few decades until he's caught, at which point you will have cost the taxpayer hundreds of thousands of dollars to incarcerate him... good work!!

I guess you are against rehabilitation?

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

I thought abortions were good. Women taking control of their own bodies, etc

I think you know what I'm pointing out. We have a policy debate that is now referred to as "reproductive rights" or "pro-choice", but actually ends up preventing the growth of minority population. So it is effectively reducing the black population.

This abortion problem can be spun in a multitude of directions. The unfortunate result is one population is affected differently than others. The causes are many, but the solution is easy. The pill. But it too will be viewed as racist for its disportionate effects on each population.

Ian called us racist merica. In this case, it is racist in support by democrats and leftists. Just a spin.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Now, I can fully understand that this approach might not work in gun-totin', racist 'merica, especially in peckerwood country, but is has been shown to work very well in this country

Gun-totin. Do you think the people of Crimea or Venezuela would have liked to have had guns? Israel citizens have guns, it is a quick reaction force.

Give your dissonance a rest and see if you can figure any benefit to gun ownership. Your flatmate did.

 

[damo]

I think you know what I'm pointing out. We have a policy debate that is now referred to as "reproductive rights" or "pro-choice", but actually ends up preventing the growth of minority population. So it is effectively reducing the black population.

This abortion problem can be spun in a multitude of directions. The unfortunate result is one population is affected differently than others. The causes are many, but the solution is easy. The pill. But it too will be viewed as racist for its disportionate effects on each population.

Ian called us racist merica. In this case, it is racist in support by democrats and leftists. Just a spin.

Are we really going to turn this thread into a debate about abortion? Let's not.

 

[crossref]

Gun-totin. Do you think the people of Crimea or Venezuela would have liked to have had guns? Israel citizens have guns, it is a quick reaction force.

Give your dissonance a rest and see if you can figure any benefit to gun ownership. Your flatmate did.

If only the worshippers in the mosques in Christchurch had been armed, eh?

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

If only the worshippers in the mosques in Christchurch had been armed, eh?

Barney Fife would have scared the shooter (A non citizen) away. Barney doesn't have to be inside.

An ounce of prevention is worth .....

 

[Ian_Cook]

If only the worshippers in the mosques in Christchurch had been armed, eh?

Its sad that you actually think thats funny.

You disgust me!