No tackling in Schools.....really?

[didds]

If I was in the RFU training department I'd be thinking the RFU should offer a course deliberately tailored to PE teachers, with the time limited to what fits in with a school budget / timescale - and prioritised on what is useful in a school environment.
.

And if I were the RFU training department I'd be saying all of this already exists on proven and delivered courses. The mountain doesn't really go to Mohammed.

This "report" only points the finger at schools. Ultimately its down to schools and what they think is needed, allied to how much the teachers et al are prepared to meet that.

For the rest of us its business as usual.

Except that the message about "schools" potentially gets lost and we potentially end up with "Jonny will get killed if he goes to the rugby club. lets all get in the car and drive to the pool instead and we can have crisps, burger and a coke afterwards".

didds

 

[Phil E]

Strictly speaking it isn't just L1 or L2 any longer

erm...actually it is....you should try it sometime :wink:

For new or inexperienced referees, the Level 1 – Refereeing Children or Level 2 – Refereeing the 15-a-side game, offer an outstanding introduction to refereeing a game of rugby union and will equip you with the skills and confidence to do so effectively.

 

[didds]

well it so just happens I know a NQT PE teacher (PGCE last year) ... and she tells me...

* "You receive general training in healthy and safety in your training year and your taught how to lead safely and effectively"

* "You don't have an award from every ngb. That would mean we've got plenty of time and money to spare "

* "Then following that once your teaching it's he teachers who are competent of leading rugby lead lessons. A lot of schools adapt
timetables to ensure the correct teacher is leading rugby"


didds

 

[crossref]

And if I were the RFU training department I'd be saying all of this already exists on proven and delivered courses. The mountain doesn't really go to Mohammed.

that would sound like the RFU we know and love

 

[OB..]

At my school in Yorkshire in the '50s rugby was mandatory. For probably 1/5 of the boys it was a pointless exercise as they had no interest in playing, certainly not tackling.

I learnt tackling (at school in the 50s) with what must have been a home-made device. Two posts some distance apart had a strong wire stretched between them. A pulley, from which was suspended a tackle dummy, could run along this wire. The connection allowed it to come free when tackled.

A rope was attached to the pulley cage, running through another pulley on top of one of the posts. A boy would be detailed to grab this and run,thus pulling the dummy at running speed along the wire. A tackler would aim to hit it hard enough to pull it free. Reset. Next.

Everybody had to play. For each age group we were separated into different training squads by ability.

Initially we were graded by our previous skills (usually at soccer) so I was in the bottom group II D. A friend was observed picking daisies on the wing, so he was told to replace me in the pack (I think I was at wing forward for some unknown reason). In the backs I actually tackled somebody, so was immediately promoted to II C. and eventually to II A. I wasn't particularly good, but was coachable and keen, so for the rest of my school career I was usually just below the elite in my age group.

 

[ChrisR]

I missed my school 1st form (in the USA) so tackling may have been taught then.

For my first rugby experience (2nd form) i was assigned to the 5th field (the lowest). I distinctly remember catching the opening kick-off and running through the entire opposition to score. Nobody wanted to kick the conversion so I did that too. After a few more of those I was shipped off to field 4 where tackling was encouraged.

When I got to field 3 I found that the 'tackle of the day' was rewarded with a sixpence (paid by the master in charge of the pitch). A tanner in 1955 actually could buy something and that was the start and end of my professional career. I cleaned up on tackle money until I got to field 2 and the payments stopped.

 

[crossref]

I learnt tackling (at school in the 50s) with what must have been a home-made device. Two posts some distance apart had a strong wire stretched between them. A pulley, from which was suspended a tackle dummy, could run along this wire. The connection allowed it to come free when tackled.
A rope was attached to the pulley cage, running through another pulley on top of one of the posts. A boy would be detailed to grab this and run,thus pulling the dummy at running speed along the wire. A tackler would aim to hit it hard enough to pull it free. Reset. Next.
.

great story!

what an effort from the school, though, to rig that up!

 

[Dixie]

I learnt tackling (at school in the 50s) with what must have been a home-made device. Two posts some distance apart had a strong wire stretched between them. A pulley, from which was suspended a tackle dummy, could run along this wire. The connection allowed it to come free when tackled.

A rope was attached to the pulley cage, running through another pulley on top of one of the posts. A boy would be detailed to grab this and run,thus pulling the dummy at running speed along the wire. A tackler would aim to hit it hard enough to pull it free. Reset. Next.

great story!

what an effort from the school, though, to rig that up!

Brilliant. Sadly, long gone are the days when a school can set decapitation or garrotting as the punishment for a high tackle

 

[Paule23]

The figures used in several interviews do not stack up, there was a huge amount of rather dodgy extrapolation to get to the 300,000 injuries and 100,000 concussions, so I think we can take those statistics with a pinch of salt.

however, I think we can all agree there is a risk of injury in rugby, more so than many other sports dues to the inherent nature of the contact. There are numerous things that can be done to minimise injury, principally proper coaching and supervision but there is no getting away from the fact the game has hard, physical contact and collisions built into it, thereby increasing the risk of injury from say hockey or basketball.

Now I am all for the overall benefits of rugby outweighing the risks, however I believe parents and children should have a choice. I don't believe rugby should be a compulsory sport in schools, no one should be forced to take part in a higher risk activity, where collisions and impact are inherent to the game. I don't think we should back tacking at school level, but I think we should give an opt out, so concerned parents or pupils can make a decision to take part or not.

 

[didds]

This debate is really about how sports are taught in schools really. I know a very recent PE pgce graduate - she confirmed that they do not do ngb awards in pgce because the list is endless, the costs prohibitive and the time taken infeasible. She added the course does cover standard risk assessments and safety. She added a lot of schools timetable rugby around the availability of teachers that do have rugby coaching training, achieved via personal interests and/or club coaching.

Most interesting was trampoling in schools does require a ngb award but she did nit know "who" insists on that eg govt

Didds

 

[Phil E]

Perhaps teachers could do a rugby course on one of their many teacher training days when the children are deprived of a days education? Or during their boringly long summer holidays?
:horse:

 

[didds]

Teacher Training days - yeah. Though I am sure they are actually used to have to bone up on the latest tranche of changes the education ministry and deemed necessary

dunno about holidays etc. As much as some people bleat about the amount of holidays teachers get, I don't see them queuing up to become one to avail themselves of this alleged huge length, so I perceive that in reality the bleaters actually think its not actually much of a holiday or the rest of life is so shit that they are needed. Whatever we may think about teachers' holidays nonetheless it is allegedly their holiday. How many of us would be willing to go on a training course for work using our annual leave? Not many i'd wager

didds

 

[crossref]

yes, clearly any training that's needed should either be part of the PGCE to become qualified, or part of the teacher's existing CPD programme - or really both.

we're talking about what is the best way to spend a necessarily limited training budget.

for a PE teacher coaching specific sports, training in how to coach those sports would certainly seem a good candidate for that budget.

 

[crossref]

Here's the RFU course brochure
http://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Docu.../07/EnglandRugbyCourseDescriptors_Neutral.pdf

The topics Player Safety and Safeguarding are probably what we are talking about here - between them they comprise Five modules, that altogether take 16 hours and cost a total of just £60 !

There are other modules aimed specifically at schools - of course there are ! - similarly good value.

looks like a good package. Well done RFU :clap:

 

[Phil E]

How many of us would be willing to go on a training course for work using our annual leave? Not many i'd wager

didds

But how many of us tell all our customers to go home and that we can't help them today because we are taking a whole day off in work hours for some training. And yes their parents will need to take a day off work as well or pay for child minding while we do it. My training doesn't affect my customers or cost them money.

 

[crossref]

Buy how many of us tell all our customers to go home and that we can't help them today because we are taking a whole day off in work hours for some training. And yes their parents will need to take a day off work as well or pay for child minding while we do it. My training doesn't affect my customers or cost them money.

Phil, the number of days that each school must deliver schooling to children is fixed by the government.

The government says : each school must deliver X days schooling to children and hold Y days of training. The schools don't get any choice in that, they can't cancel training and open the school longer, any more than they can cancel a day of school and go training instead.

You can argue about how big X and Y should be, but surely no one thinks that Y should be zero.

 

[Phil E]

Phil, the number of days that each school must deliver schooling to children is fixed by the government.

The government says : each school must deliver X days schooling to children and hold Y days of training. The schools don't get any choice in that, they can't cancel training and open the school longer, any more than they can cancel a day of school and go training instead.

You can argue about how big X and Y should be, but surely no one thinks that Y should be zero.

If training is taken during term time (which it is), then that is a days schooling lost.
They could do the training on non-term days if they chose to.

 

[didds]

But how many of us tell all our customers to go home and that we can't help them today because we are taking a whole day off in work hours for some training. And yes their parents will need to take a day off work as well or pay for child minding while we do it. My training doesn't affect my customers or cost them money.

Potentially if I am on leave it costs my customers' money if their systems are down and they need them.

Today being a perfect example.

didds

 

[didds]

If training is taken during term time (which it is), then that is a days schooling lost.
They could do the training on non-term days if they chose to.

what - in their specified and non selectable leave you mean? Get real!


didds

 

[crossref]

If training is taken during term time (which it is), then that is a days schooling lost.
They could do the training on non-term days if they chose to.

it's not taken in term time, because the government defines term time as 190 days per year. Teachers work 190 days of terms + 5 days development = 195 days.