Points deduction for ineligible players

[matty1194]

One of the clubs up here in Scotland has been hit with a massive 49 point deduction for fielding ineligible players over the course of this season.

It all relates to 2 South African lads that have been turning out for the team without the correct International clearance paperwork being completed, no statements issued by the SRU or the Club themselves but some reporter has gotten hold of it and appeared in the paper the other day.



The SRU however have updated the League table to show the points deduction.

http://www.scottishrugby.org/fixtures-results/?competition=98778

Does anyone know any other clubs that have received such a loss over the course of a season.

 

[johnnied]

Exeter University, seemingly

http://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Docu...Wednesday18March-ExeterUniversity_Neutral.pdf

 

[Na Madrai]

I have a vague recollection that Oswestry RC suffered something very similiar many seasons back - my sincere apologies if I have the wrong club. Being fairly close to the Welsh border, they played a welsh based player who was later identified as having been given a life ban by WRU. They were deducted a bucket load of points and very nearly closed down but fought through.

NM

 

[SimonSmith]

Guildford Rugby got a points spanking a few years ago I think.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Moortown (Leeds) in Yorkshire 2 started 2014/15 with -20 points for ineligible players previously.

That is quite tame by comparison to some of the sanctions dished out above.

They have managed to finish 4th!!! despite the deduction and playing their first 6 games away due to pitch relaying. A great effort I thought -it would have been easy to throw in the towel and feel sorry for themselves.

View attachment 3214

 

[crossref]

there must be a difference between playing players who could have been registered and eligible, if only proper process had been followed, and playing players who could never have been registered (eg a player serving a life ban as in NM example - or a player registered and playing for another club at same time).

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

there must be a difference between playing players who could have been registered and eligible, if only proper process had been followed, and playing players who could never have been registered (eg a player serving a life ban as in NM example - or a player registered and playing for another club at same time).

I would guess so. Perhaps the difference in sanction is the difference between an admin oversight and a complete disregard for the rules. Dunno. If Moortown had been deducted 49/50 they'd be relegated (just).

I'm not sure which is more cruel - a deduction at the start or one imposed just before the end of the season!?

 

[matty1194]

Similar too one of the clubs here last season, St Boswells who were disqualified from the National Bowl Final a week before the Final was due to be played for fielding ineligible players and also deducted 13 league points, however they still went up as Champions as they were massively ahead of 2nd place having won every game that season with BP's in every match.

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/14/04/10/championship-committee

They appealed the decision and were unsuccessful even though they had a strong case as they had received written approval in the season stating that all players were correctly registered, someone at the Championship Committee found this not to be relevant.

For St Boswells they have had another unbeaten season (unbeaten in 2 years) and this weekend are back in a National Final, for the Shield this time against another team who are unbeaten this season.

 

[didds]

the issue surrounding such points penalties is that a deduction of something like 49 points would mean almost certain relegation.

this may be catastrophic at higher levels - players leave for a club in a higher league, sponsors drop away with the perceived lower level being a less attractive audience.

At lower levels in particular though, it may not actually change much. Sponsors tend to be far more local so the target audience doen;t change. Players tend not to change clubs much. But what you now get - once the paper work has been tided up correctly! - is a team that may have been quite tidy at a higher league now unchanged in a lower league and potentially a season of whopping everybody left right and centre and being immediately promoted from whence they came. With a 50 point deduction its not byong possibilities a team that was heading for promotion ends up 2 leagues lower !

I don;t have a better solution I'll accept - but its not necessarily mush of a punishment in the longer term.

didds

 

[Dixie]

Guildford Rugby got a points spanking a few years ago I think.

Was that your alma mater?

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Alma Cogan

 

[Browner]

"Administrative oversights" can happen, even after a warning was issued, thats normal. ! !:chin:.

Although you'd expect a club who is 'organised enough' to import players from overseas to be able to follow some admin rules.

 

[OB..]

"Administrative oversights" can happen, even after a warning was issued, thats normal. ! !:chin:.

Although you'd expect a club who is 'organised enough' to import players from overseas to be able to follow some admin rules.

Left hand, right hand?

 

[SimonSmith]

Well, the old boys club that merged with Guildford and Godalming (for whom ExHookah and I both played I think) was the OB club for my school, yes. Guilty

 

[didds]

getting on for a decade ago now, I coached at a club where we had a Canadian lad come along to "have a go". without being brilliant, he was fine and enjoyed his rugby, playing 2nd XV mainly.

We did eventually get the paperwork sorted, but it was a hell of a mess because IIRC he wasn't registered with Rugby Canada to start with!

didds

 

[didds]

And thinking about it, we never filled any paperwork in as a Pom, when i played in Sydney (two different clubs, two different occasions) or New Zealand, or Germany.

I suspect the international paperwork thing is rarely followed through at anything like approaching grass roots levels.

didds

 

[Browner]

getting on for a decade ago now, I coached at a club where we had a Canadian lad come along to "have a go". without being brilliant, he was fine and enjoyed his rugby, playing 2nd XV mainly.

We did eventually get the paperwork sorted, but it was a hell of a mess because IIRC he wasn't registered with Rugby Canada to start with!

didds

Fair point Didds,
I don't think registrations rules should be relaxed when it comes to international arrivees playing in the 3rds/ 4ths ( 2nds) etc.... But its the star imports into the 1sts that the rules need to robustly control , as this is where the main club skulldugary/ benefits occur.

 

[Browner]

And thinking about it, we never filled any paperwork in as a Pom, when i played in Sydney (two different clubs, two different occasions) or New Zealand, or Germany.

didds

Perhaps you would've appeared on the teamsheet as ....

Les playmayt
Waine Kerrpom
Kitta incaranwannarunoutta
Or
Herr Breifly

 

[didds]

I was in the local paper under my real name in NZ!

didds

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I was in the local paper under my real name in NZ!

didds

June 1985 Auckland Assizes - Indecent Exposure - 2 weeks imprisonment followed by deportation?