Post match

[spikeno10]

Saturday saw my club's 2nd XV playing their 4th league game of the season.
This is the second saturday in a row where the referee has finished the game, got changed and left before providing either team with the final score or a feedback card.
Is this normal?
It is a bit of a pain as the home team has to call the result through to the league and last week we (the opposition coach and I) just agreed a number. That fixture was a total mis-match due to a team having been dropped down the leagues and we'd given up counting the score on the side lines during the game (having to deal with too many injuries didn't help).

 

[tim White]

"Is this normal?" -No.

 

[didds]

sopciety ref?

I'd suggest rather cheekily phoning the society chappies that allocate fixtures and asking him to get the ref to phone you and the oppo coach and club secretary etc to pass on the scoreline as he left without saying goodbye and you are left in limbo wrt the reporting of the score.

;-)

didds

 

[crossref]

at my game I had the reverse. Neither team has any kind of score sheet for me to sign. Is that normal?

I verbally agreed the score with both captains, no I am just hoping nothing goes wrong.

I did get them both to fill in a feedback card though.

 

[The Fat]

To answer your question, no.
What I don't understand is why there is not a better system of recording used in some matches in England?
We have a match sheet book provided to each team at the start of the season. The team manager/coach is responsible for filling in a match sheet before each game.
1. Player's name beside corresponding number
2. Player's signature
3. Player's ARU rego number (called MyRugby Number in Aus)
Then there are columns for recording Tries, goals, PGs, DGs totals, YCs, RCs etc.

The home team provides a scorers table and scorer (also collects substitutes cards) who enters the scores on each team's match sheet so at the end of the game, the ref checks the scores, notes any cards given, notes any concussion injuries and awards 3, 2, 1 points for best and fairest (goes towards end of season awards).
The books are in duplicate format and the top sheet goes to the zone administrator for points tables etc. while the club retains the duplicate copy.
It is a pretty thorough system but could easily be simplified to A4 sheets that has a cut off section noting the main info that can be given to the visiting team so that both clubs have a record of the game and score signed by the ref.
There is also a section for recording the referee and AR's names which is the record used for match officials tally for payment at the end of the season.

 

[Toby Warren]

Wowzer that's a complx system

For 1st XV league fixtures they have got right I think.

1 A4 sheet of paper - both teams fill in thier team (and nominated FR) sign and give to ref before KO.

At the end of the game ref completes the score and amount of trys (and if completed uncontested) signs and returns to home team

Job done.

 

[The Fat]

Wowzer that's a complx system

For 1st XV league fixtures they have got right I think.

1 A4 sheet of paper - both teams fill in thier team (and nominated FR) sign and give to ref before KO.

At the end of the game ref completes the score and amount of trys (and if completed uncontested) signs and returns to home team

Job done.

I agree it is full on which is why I added, "It is a pretty thorough system but could easily be simplified to A4 sheets that has a cut off section noting the main info that can be given to the visiting team so that both clubs have a record of the game and score signed by the ref", which sounds pretty much like your system.
Every player registered in Australia receives an ARU MyRugby number. By having the player's name, signature and MyRugby number recorded on the match sheet, it is difficult (but not impossible) for teams to use unregistered players. Our insurance only covers registered players who are shown as registered with a particular club on the ARU MyRugby Admin web site. If an unregistered player takes part in a match, then there is potentially no insurance guaranteed to all players in that match i.e. if the unregistered player is injured or injures a registered player, then there is no insurance cover for those injuries.
I know that other zones (unions) use different methods of recording for matches and that ours may seem a bit too in depth, but it does make life easier for the administrator who checks every match sheet and informs clubs if a player is not registered as well as other useful info like Best and Fairest awards and referee/AR payments.
The other plus is that I don't have to keep score if I don't want to.

 

[Jacko]

The other plus is that I don't have to keep score if I don't want to.

Womble's on the next flight over...

 

[Simon Thomas]

Spike - not normal and if alerted to it, I would re-educate one of our Society refs guys accordingly. Always stay to chat with skippers at least, coaches if possible and Front Rows for self-learning.

Any referee of any match should give the players the score.

All League matches (and some Merit Table too, but not all, so maybe not in west London crossref) have a team cards system where the players are listed beforehand, and the score / # of tries, plus any uncontested scrums have to be recorded and signed off by the referee afterwards.

 

[Taff]

.... A4 sheet of paper - both teams fill in thier team (and nominated FR) sign and give to ref before KO. At the end of the game ref completes the score and amount of trys (and if completed uncontested) signs and returns to home team.

We regularly get reminded that with league games we should have the Team Sheets before we take the field, but I just understood its to cover our own arse if there was a dispute over whether FRs we STE. The other advantage is that if you RC a player, as long as you have his number you can double check the name in case you were given a duff name. Eg "A Dolf" on the field but "John Smith" on the Team sheet.

Only once have I been asked to sign and return a Team Sheet. Normally I just shred them when I clean out my kitbag.

 

[Dixie]

Spike, it's not at all normal, and I'd let your Society know that it's happening.

Without condoning it, I'd just add that the only times I've ever contemplating sidling off have been after games that were horrible to referee - players and sidelines uttering abuse and mutterings of discontent about incompetence (or worse, bias). In such cases, for a ref to walk into the lions' den after the game can take a lot of courage. While the refs concerned have clearly got to look at themselves, it may be worth the club taking the opportunity to check its own reflection.

 

[Waspsfan]

Spike - what are your club doing to encourage the referee into the clubhouse? Would it hurt if someone nominated to look after the refs went to his changing room and offered to get him a drink, showed him where the bar was, explained if there was food available and how he go about getting it? It can be hard for referees to walk into a new clubhouse with no-one to talk to, especially if they have had, or perceive themselves to have had a bad game. This kind of 'welcome' would certainly be good practice - might also identify the odd occasion where a referee says 'I'm sorry I have to run because I have to pick the kids up / get back to work etc'

 

[Taff]

Doesn't the Ref call into the clubhouse to collect his expenses then? :chin:

 

[Dixie]

Doesn't the Ref call into the clubhouse to collect his expenses then? :chin:

Several Societies in England charge their clubs a match fee, from which they pay referee expenses centrally.

 

[crossref]

in london the ref might not have any expenses. I haven't yet - my journey on Saturday was two miles, it seems silly to claim for that. The prvious week I went on the tube, covered by my season ticket.

 

[Phil E]

In Warwickshire we encourage all our referees to make themselves available in the bar afterwards.
If they have to run off I would expect them to at least apologise to the captains after the game and say "sorry, cant stop have to get to x, y, z".

On the worst game I ever had, resulting in an abandoned game I stook my bag to the car and sat there for five minutes before deciding to go to the clubhouse and get my pint and some food. My pride wouldn't let me slink off, so I walked into the bar with a big grin my face and said hello to everyone. Didn't get much response but a couple of wise heads came over and thanked me for coming, which made me feel much better.

League and merit table games all have team cards which must be completed before the game. This isn't to protect the ref, but to make sure the team isn't altered. Ref fills it out with the score. If he gets given it late he writes that on the card.

In games without cards I will give the score to whoever asks for it, this usually happens as I am walking off the pitch, so it can be phoned through.

 

[Account Deleted]

Our expenses have a minimum so a 2 miler is £10. The fee is claimed back from the WRU, as I understand it, so yes I claim what I'm entitled to.

I always tell BOTH clubs upon arriving (ASAP) if I have to take the cash and run. Then there is no suggestion of "hiding". That said I would also ensure that all expected formalities were done before making a quick exit.

 

[Dickie E]

Spike - what are your club doing to encourage the referee into the clubhouse? Would it hurt if someone nominated to look after the refs went to his changing room and offered to get him a drink, showed him where the bar was, explained if there was food available and how he go about getting it? It can be hard for referees to walk into a new clubhouse with no-one to talk to, especially if they have had, or perceive themselves to have had a bad game. This kind of 'welcome' would certainly be good practice - might also identify the odd occasion where a referee says 'I'm sorry I have to run because I have to pick the kids up / get back to work etc'

Best practice here (and "best practice" is code for doesn't happen very often) is for a referee liasion person from the home club to meet the referee on arrival, show him where change rooms are, ensure he is happy with pitch, etc. This person would then connect with the ref after the game, invite him into bar, etc.

If your club wants to get a positive reputation with officialdom (and why wouldn't it?) then you should take the lead.

 

[Browner]

How about increase referee fees across all clubs by 20%, get each referee to score the 'hospitality' of the club for each match .... produce a league table & reimburse the clubs operating above an agreed acceptable standard a % of the fees collected throughout the season. other than the admin issues - wouldn't this drive up the profile of hospitality in the community game?

 

[menace]

Best practice here (and "best practice" is code for never happens) is for a referee liasion person from the home club to meet the referee on arrival, show him where change rooms are, ensure he is happy with pitch, etc. This person would then connect with the ref after the game, invite him into bar, etc.

If your club wants to get a positive reputation with officialdom (and why wouldn't it?) then you should take the lead.

FTFY.