Referee and Coach Insurance

[PG_BoE]

This is a short insurance question. I am a L2 RFU Coach and National Foundation Referee. I recall some years ago that if a person coached or refereed away from his 'home' club (eg at a school or college) he/she was not insured under the RFU compulsory policy ... the school or college whould have to offer the cover. The situation would be different for members of a Referee Society who have their own cover (for refereeing at least).

Has this situation now changed? The RFU website insurance wording (below) indicates that 'any person' - qualified or not - would now be covered to carry out any of the coaching or refereeing activities I have outlined above wherever they take place? Wording below from RFU website.

Who is insured – any person acting as a referee, touch judge, coach, trainer, instructor or voluntary medical attendant during a Rugby Football Union approved activity

 

[Dixie]

It has changed. Several years ago, Societies all had separate policies because the RFU policy didn't adequately cover them. Those policies have been allowed to lapse because the RFU sorted it with Marsh. The RFU insurance now covers any ref anywhere in RFU-land - even if you drag the local untrained drunk off his arse because your Society ref has crashed en route.

 

[Phil E]

Doesnt he have to be appointed by the match organiser to be covered?

 

[Dixie]

How many matches does your Society organise annually?

http://www.rfu.com/managingrugby/in...ng rugby/insurance/2013_14_cover_summary.ashx

Refs and Coaches Liability

Insured -
The Rugby Football Union, Rugby Football Union For Women, England Rugby Football Schools Union, Constituent Bodies, Rugby Football Referees Union, Federated Referees Societies and/or Referee Society, England Colleges Rugby Football Union, Students Rugby Football Union.
• Who is insured
– any person acting as a referee, touch judge, coach, trainer, instructor or voluntary medical attendant during a Rugby Football Union approved activity
• Who is NOT insured
– qualified medical practitioners whilst acting in a medical capacity (i.e. those covered by Crown Indemnity, Medical Defence Organisations, Medical Defence Union or similar).
• What are you covered for – legal liability for damages in respect of accidental injury of any person and accidental loss of or damage to property in connection with the activities of the rugby club.
• Where does cover apply – anywhere in the world excluding
USA/Canada unless with the written prior authorisation of the Rugby Football Union.
• Indemnity limits for the period of insurance -
o £15million for any one event
o Limited to £15million for all events in respect of products liability

 

[Browner]

This is a short insurance question. I am a L2 RFU Coach and National Foundation Referee. I recall some years ago that if a person coached or refereed away from his 'home' club (eg at a school or college) he/she was not insured under the RFU compulsory policy ... the school or college whould have to offer the cover. The situation would be different for members of a Referee Society who have their own cover (for refereeing at least).

Has this situation now changed? The RFU website insurance wording (below) indicates that 'any person' - qualified or not - would now be covered to carry out any of the coaching or refereeing activities I have outlined above wherever they take place? Wording below from RFU website.

Who is insured – any person acting as a referee, touch judge, coach, trainer, instructor or voluntary medical attendant during a Rugby Football Union approved activity

This would likely be the key consideration, meet it & you're covered, is my take.

 

[didds]

anyone involved in a game that wouold come under the auspices of the RFU has automatic RFU/Marsh insurances - as long as you stick to the AG regs etc naturally. Tghis has been the case for at least the dozen or so years I have been coaching and i suspect far far longer than that - consider the 3rd XV playing somebody's mate who is visiting for the weekend etc to play scenario that happens all the time



didds

 

[didds]

ah - the magic words I had missed was "school/college". there could be some nuance there due to the mexican standoff between the RFU and ESRFU, as often schools ignore the RFU AGrs (nee Continuum and now rapidly replaced by NRoP) and do there own thing ... presumably under their own insurances and auspices.

So if you reffed a schools year 7 match at 15 a side, handoffs and lifted lineouts then certainly RFU/Marsh insurance would NOT cover you anyway - so you are down to whatever the saxchool you are at has in place potentially.

ESRFU make it up as they go along from what i see.

Good luck.

didds

 

[crossref]

Doesnt he have to be appointed by the match organiser to be covered?

someone will have asked you to ref.


but yes, if I texted an appointed LSRFUR ref and told him the game was off, and then turned up at the ground claiming to be him and reffed the game, I personally wouldn't be very insured.
But this wouldn't affect the injury cover that marsh provide for all the players.

 

[Account Deleted]

In Wales it is so simple.

For youth and above, the referee (L2 or L3) MUST be appointed by the WRU via one of their society appointment officers or the referees' department.

Under youth the home club appoints a referee who MUST be L1 or above.

Clubs should ask to see the referee's WRU, photo ID / license card if they do not recognise him / her.

If I get a call cancelling a game I speak to the Appointment secretary and the club should do the same so any attempt to detour the ref to replace him should be picked up.

To referee outside Wales. I need cover provided by the home side. Unless, of course, I was refereeing at the higher levels where exchanges are fairly common.

 

[crossref]

In Wales it is so simple.

For youth and above, the referee (L2 or L3) MUST be appointed by the WRU via one of their society appointment officers or the referees' department.

Under youth the home club appoints a referee who MUST be L1 or above.

Clubs should ask to see the referee's WRU, photo ID / license card if they do not recognise him / her.

If I get a call cancelling a game I speak to the Appointment secretary and the club should do the same so any attempt to detour the ref to replace him should be picked up.

To referee outside Wales. I need cover provided by the home side. Unless, of course, I was refereeing at the higher levels where exchanges are fairly common.

TBH I think we should have something like this in England.

 

[OB..]

TBH I think we should have something like this in England.

The WRU system came in after the Vowles case. It would be interesting to know what the immediate impact was, and how rugby adjusted to it. At the time the RFU took the decision that it would not follow suit.

 

[didds]

My biggest concern is that games would not go ahead with qualified refs not being available. Though I appreciate that this is a self fulfilling prophecy as if it means the requirement is not introduced then there is no compuntion on anyone taking ELRA/whatever is needed. As it is the RFU do have a mini/midi reffing module, but last time I enquired a few years ago I was steered away from it... and a full ELRA is a big ask of people timewise.

Possibly part of this is potential problem is avoided in wales because AIUI the basic level of reffing qualification comes with the WRU level 1 coaching award (?) so in reality "every" welsh level 1 coach is already a qualified referee. ??


didds

 

[Simon Thomas]

It is simple in RFULand - you are covered for insurance purposes (limited personal injury, death and third party liability) by whomever appoints you - although Society and Club Insurance were rolled up a few years ago by Marsh (Society Match Officials were covered by Injury and Death on journey to & from home and the match location, whereas Club were not - now all are).
Schools should have their own insurance, if you are not appointed by Society.

RFU Match Official and Coaches Insurance info here on Personal Accident and Liability cover.

 

[crossref]

My biggest concern is that games would not go ahead with qualified refs not being available. Though I appreciate that this is a self fulfilling prophecy as if it means the requirement is not introduced then there is no compuntion on anyone taking ELRA/whatever is needed. As it is the RFU do have a mini/midi reffing module, but last time I enquired a few years ago I was steered away from it... and a full ELRA is a big ask of people timewise.

Possibly part of this is potential problem is avoided in wales because AIUI the basic level of reffing qualification comes with the WRU level 1 coaching award (?) so in reality "every" welsh level 1 coach is already a qualified referee. ??
didds

I have the feeling that things have moved on a lot in the last few seasons. I can't prove it, but that's my feeling from talking to referees at youth games, I often ask them about how their club is run.

If the RFU policy became (say)
- all games from U17 and upwards are appointed by the RFU/Society
- all games up to U13-U16 are appointed by clubs, who must use someone with an ELRA2 qualficiation (or equivalent)

then actually I don't think we are very far away from that.
- in the clubs I talk to this is their policy already. At my club we have all done ELRA2, the impact would be that I'd just have to put that much more effort into making sure that everyone has absolutely done it prior to reaching U13
- in the society - they already appoint to plenty of U17 games. they just might need to find a few more. BUT they are already taking actions on this line, reaching out to clubs to get people to sign up to doing local youth games, as a transtion into proper society reffing.

So again I thnik that we are well on the way there. Implementing a policy like that might be possible.
If that worked then we could look to reduce the U17 to U16 or U15. Over time

 

[didds]

Hi CR - in fact we have a non mandatory policy of something similar. We strongly suggest to each age group that they have at least one ELRA 2 qualified ref and ask that they on occassion use this to ref OTHER age groups - removing any "local knowledge" eg an U14 coach with ELRA 2 may ref the U16s etc. and we are there pretty much

How much this is reflected in other clubs I really couldn't say.

didds

 

[crossref]

Hi CR - in fact we have a non mandatory policy of something similar. We strongly suggest to each age group that they have at least one ELRA 2 qualified ref and ask that they on occassion use this to ref OTHER age groups - removing any "local knowledge" eg an U14 coach with ELRA 2 may ref the U16s etc. and we are there pretty much

How much this is reflected in other clubs I really couldn't say.

didds

the Herts-Middx Leagues, in which we play, have a very helpful regulation : in a league game the home club referee must be someone with no attachment to the age group. (if you can't meet this, you have to offer the away team the chance to bring a ref who does).

This is really helpful for referee development as it forces referees out of their age group for league games. Every age group immediately sees the logic that if other age group refs will take their games, for the system to work, their age-group ref will also have to step in to other game..

Then the need to go out of age group for league games, leads newbie refs to first want the experience of reffing out of age group in a friendly .. so we do some swapping for those as well. Also refs have to get used to the idea that they might be reffing a ame on one pitch while their son plays on the other...
but generally we wrok things out.

Other clubs I talk to work much the same.

Of course a big constraint is home/away. An age group ref with a son playing (lots of them) is at only at the club when their son is playing at home or training. Reducing the swaps available.

the formality of leagues brings advantages.

 

[Simon Thomas]

It is our CB GUIDELINE policy that ALL Club Referees for U13 and higher age groups in Youth Rugby and all Club Referees for adult rugby are ELRA2 qualified.

The Hampshire Schools Union has a similar guideline and Schools specific ELRAs have been run by our wonderful Area 2 RFU Training Officer.

 

[Account Deleted]

Possibly part of this is potential problem is avoided in wales because AIUI the basic level of reffing qualification comes with the WRU level 1 coaching award (?) so in reality "every" welsh level 1 coach is already a qualified referee. ??

didds

WRONG! Clubs are required to have a ref among each coaching group. The courses are totally separate.

 

[Account Deleted]

The WRU system came in after the Vowles case. It would be interesting to know what the immediate impact was, and how rugby adjusted to it. At the time the RFU took the decision that it would not follow suit.

That I can't answer. Before my time as a ref

 

[crossref]

It is our CB GUIDELINE policy that ALL Club Referees for U13 and higher age groups in Youth Rugby and all Club Referees for adult rugby are ELRA2 qualified.

The Hampshire Schools Union has a similar guideline and Schools specific ELRAs have been run by our wonderful Area 2 RFU Training Officer.

another great example

so my thought is that we have reached the point where these guidelines and policies could be converted into mandatory regulations, without actually causing too much pressure on clubs - as most people comply already, one way or another.

I have to say that our club policy - all referees from u13 upwards to have ELRA or equivalent - causes no problems. the club, the coaches and the referees themselves all buy into it.