[Line out] Saracens vs Munster European Rugby Champions Cup

[Dickie E]

I wonder if context is the issue. If Jamie George had gone into the medic’s surgery and was told bluntly that his weight was a matter of concern for his health would he have reacted similarly? Perhaps the medic was speaking out of genuine professional concern? As things stand it’s probable that 99% of professional rugby players nowadays have a BMI above a healthy state based on the official charts.

The way I hear it he said "you're a fat c**t". Interesting bedside manner

 

[mcroker]

A medic that calls an international-calibre athlete’s physique into question only makes themselves look silly. Hardly worth responding to.

 

[L'irlandais]

Unfortunately, due to my location in Eastern France(and lack of a VPN) I haven’t gotten hold of the full match replay. However as I see it Black’s hooker came to get the ball to throw in to the lineout restart. With the niggle creeping into the game (unbeknownst to the poor french ref.) none of Red’s pack was willing to give the ball to him. I suspect he may even have had some disparaging remarks at this early stage in the proceedings. Black 2 then kicks the ball as hard as he can off a Red forward’s legs. The ball inadvertantly ends up in touch near Red’s team doctor, who tells him what a twat he is for kicking the ball off the Red player. Black 2 gets shirty, and so the truths come out. Far from being silly, it is very much his professional duty to tell Black 2 he is overweight.

But at the root of it all is Black 2 kicking the ball unnecessarily hard off a Red player. If his coach cannot see that, then surely the EPCR can. The spark is not the doctor ‘s comment, but Black 2 spoiling for a fight coming looking for the ball and not getting a reaction from Red’s pack. Jamie George is usually such a calm bloke.

 

[Dickie E]

it is very much his professional duty to tell Black 2 he is overweight.

it is customary to put a smiley emoji after a comment like this to make it clear that you are making a joke (ie )

 

[L'irlandais]

Indeed, Or better still the sarcastic one. I accept that Red’s Doctor isn’t restricted to the technical area. :sarc: But feel he shouldn’t abuse this freedom of movement by giving (unasked for?) sideline consultations to opposition players. He should have kept his mouth shut, Black 2 should not have let his frustration get the better of him and start throwing his weight around and thirdly Red 7 getting in a shoving match was the last straw. Restarting with a penalty is good match management, however the reason for that penalty needs to be better thought through.

 

[OB..]

[FONT=&quot]Muscle is much denser than fat, so very muscular people, such as heavyweight boxers, weight trainers and athletes, may be a healthy weight even though their BMI is classed as obese.[/FONT]

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/lifestyle/what-is-the-body-mass-index-bmi/
Surely the opposition doctor should assume that the Saracens' medical team know what they are doing? Without the opportunity to examine a player how can he judge for himself?

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I heard the "misuse" of BMI explained as "All people who live in Edinburgh live in Scotland and you can't reverse the two and have it make sense".

Works for me.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Indeed, Or better still the sarcastic one. I accept that Red’s Doctor isn’t restricted to the technical area. :sarc: But feel he shouldn’t abuse this freedom of movement by giving (unasked for?) sideline consultations to opposition players. He should have kept his mouth shut...

If a doctor / medic abuses the privilege of roaming them the privilege should be withdrawn.

 

[Pinky]

The penalty was given against Owen Farrel, AIUI. Whilst he may well deserve penalties from time to time, it seemed a bit of a gotcha to penalise the captain from approaching the fracas - he should have told the ref he was there to get his players to stop it!

 

[L'irlandais]

If you listen closely, you’ll hear him explain exactly that. It was a ridiculous penalty, given that all 30 players were involved. The French referee didn’t have perfect English. I wonder if he actually knew what happened, to be honest.

 

[L'irlandais]

The latest news is there is no news as yet, but watch this space :
Misconduct complaint brought against Munster doctor over alleged abusive language

An independent disciplinary committee will now hear the misconduct complaint "as soon as practicable".

The full statement read: "Following an investigation, EPCR has decided to bring a misconduct complaint against the Munster Rugby Team Doctor, Dr Jamie Kearns, arising from the Heineken Champions Cup fixture between Saracens and Munster on Saturday, 14 December 2019.

"During the second half of the Round 4 match at Allianz Park, it is alleged that Dr Kearns directed an abusive comment, or comments, at the Saracens player, Jamie George, and that the comment, or comments, may have had the potential to bring the sport of rugby union, the Heineken Champions Cup, and/or EPCR into disrepute.

"In making the alleged comment, or comments, Dr Kearns breached the Disciplinary Rules of the 2019/20 EPCR Participation Agreement.

"An independent Disciplinary Committee to hear the misconduct complaint will be convened, and a date for the hearing will be announced as soon as practicable.

"EPCR will not be commenting on this matter in the meantime."

 

[crossref]

I wonder who complained

 

[L'irlandais]

That’s easy, Mark McCall did by all accounts. If he hadn’t I think the citing officer might have done so regardless. Or failing that EPCR sound worried enough about the game being brought into disrepute, to do so themselves. Although I think EPCR moving their HQ to Switzerland in 2014 for tax purposes, achieved that (bringing the game into disrepute)already.

 

[didds]

Although I think EPCR moving their HQ to Switzerland in 2014 for tax purposes, achieved that (bringing the game into disrepute)already.

Isnt that why the IRB (as named then) moved to Dublin several years ago? ie tax reasons?

didds

 

[L'irlandais]

More than likely, Ireland is certainly higher than Switzerland on the list of European tax havens. England, or more specifically London is top of that Top Ten list. Source

England has been particularly popular with nondomiciled billionaires who benefit from a lack of income taxes or capital gains taxes on investments held outside of the country.

Think corrupt Russian Oligarchs and the like...

There is a huge contradiction between the non-profit status of sporting bodies, such as WR/aka iRB, and their involvement in very profitable activities. They benefit from enormous amounts of unpaid (grassroots) work, yet their full time staff have enviable salaries. So before they go pointing the finger at any individual, perhaps they’d like to get their own house in order first. By the way, while their 2014 move to swankier Headquarters attracted quite a bit of Headline news, they had already been in Dublin for several years at that point. (Since as early as 2004 maybe, as Huguenot House was renovated way back in 2002, the Celtic Tiger era.)

 

[L'irlandais]

Still no date set for the hearing, anyone would think the hardworking EPCR management team had a whole month off for Christmas.

 

[L'irlandais]

In their statement, European Professional Club Rugby (EPCR) said that:

The independent panel found that, during the match at Allianz Park on Saturday 14 December, Dr Kearns verbally abused the Saracens player, Jamie George, and that in doing so, Dr Kearns breached the EPCR Disciplinary Rules.
The independent Disciplinary Committee took into account the immediate expression of remorse shown by Dr Kearns and determined that he serve a three-week touchline ban, suspended for a period of 12 months and pay a fine of €2,000 (due immediately).

That will teach him to keep his comments to himself.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Pathetic rersponse by EPCR.

 

[L'irlandais]

Not sure I agree. You yourself have never let slip any foul language on, or near the field of play?

This example of ERC fining a team doctor for calling the opposition hooker “a fat so-n-so”. They only did so because they had to be seen to keep from bringing the game into disrepute. Everyone could plainly see the player was acting the twat (spoiling for a fight because unable at that point of the match to break down the opposition) and deserved a dressing down; argument centered around the medic’s choice of words. Did he use the c word? Nobody actually heard what was said on live TV. What’s wrong with calling a spade a spade?

Moral of the story 30 players behave disgracefully plus a team of four who don’t deal with the incident satisfactorily. Somebody has to be punished. Restarting with a penalty against Black10 for joining the 30-man fray,was ridiculous. Either penalize Red and send their medic from the playing enclosure or penalize Black 2 for trying to provoke a fight ; or perhaps Red 7 for retaliation. However don’t just make up a penalty; zero credibility Monsieur Gauzère . Ironically, the unfairness of the penalty sparked Sarries to up their game and ultimately helped them close out this game. Who ever said a referee’s decisions can’t influence the outcome of a game of such small margins.

 

[beckett50]

One could also argue that the actions of the Munster medic sparked Sarries to up their game as well.

I think that Marc Wakeham is suggesting that the response by EPCR is too light, in that the medic concerned showed little - if any - professional courtesy or respect for any of the game values. I tend to agree that the sanction should have been harsher.