Scotland vs England

[Account Deleted]

Nothing, we just don't understand ^^
I just love how french players in HCup or Amlin cup, just nod even if i'm pretty sure they didn't get a single word :biggrin: Especially with welsh or irish refs

First time I reffed a French side the PMB was interesting. I basically speak no French. They spoke no English.

My brief consisted of The words Crouch; Pause; Engage accompanied by actions. And A "Pulling down" on the arms action and the word "NON!"

They nodded. The game went well with three words used: Oui, Non & Allez. We got through and I was given a Bottle of wine a plaque By the French visitors and a tie and t shirt by the home team.

The bemused look on the front row during the PMB was only surpassed by the bemused look when they saw the post match "food".

 

[tim White]

The game went well with three words used: Oui, Non & Allez. .

There is perhaps a lesson for all referees in this; Use very few words- but use them in the right places and at the right times (I wish I'd understood this when I was refereeing!)

 

[Waspsfan]

I don't see what the issue is here.

[LAWS]LAW 19.2 QUICK THROW IN
(h) At a quick throw-in, a player must not prevent the ball being thrown in 5 metres.
Sanction: Free Kick on 15-metre line[/LAWS]

[LAWS]19.10 OPTIONS AVAILABLE IN A LINEOUT
(h) Blocking the throw-in. A lineout player must not stand less than 5 metres from the
touchline. A lineout player must not prevent the ball being thrown in 5 metres.
Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line[/LAWS]

It doesn't matter who throws and stop stops it going 5m, its a FK against the team of the player that stopped it going 5m and there are no options available.

End of!

You are ignoring this law:

At a quick throw-in, if the player throws the ball in the direction of the opposition’s goal line or if the ball does not travel at least 5 metres to the 5-metre line along or behind the line of touch before it touches the ground or a player, or if the player steps into the field of play when the ball is thrown, then the quick throw-in is disallowed. The opposing team chooses to throw in at either a lineout where the quick throw-in was attempted, or a scrum on the 15-metre line at that place. If they too throw in the ball incorrectly at the lineout, a scrum is formed on the 15-metre line. The team that first threw in the ball throws in the ball at the scrum.

For me throw not 5 - same as not straight - options
Player deliberately prevents ball going 5 - FK

 

[Ian_Cook]

You are ignoring this law:

At a quick throw-in, if the player throws the ball in the direction of the opposition’s goal line or if the ball does not travel at least 5 metres to the 5-metre line along or behind the line of touch before it touches the ground or a player, or if the player steps into the field of play when the ball is thrown, then the quick throw-in is disallowed. The opposing team chooses to throw in at either a lineout where the quick throw-in was attempted, or a scrum on the 15-metre line at that place. If they too throw in the ball incorrectly at the lineout, a scrum is formed on the 15-metre line. The team that first threw in the ball throws in the ball at the scrum.

For me throw not 5 - same as not straight - options
Player deliberately prevents ball going 5 - FK

No, I'm not ignoring the that Law, I am classing it as irrelevant to the issue because its about the ball unintentionally not travelling 5m before striking the ground, or a player. The issue at hand is whether or not a player intentionally prevents the ball from travelling in 5m line.

If its thrown and the player catches the ball before 5m, he has intentionally prevented it travelling in 5m = FK.
If its thrown and it hits him without him trying to catch it before 5m, he has unintentionally prevented it travelling in 5m = scrum

 

[Waspsfan]

Have you seen the clip? It wasn't intentional. He wanted it to go 5 but caught it early/ misjudged it. An intentional preventing it go 5 would surely be done by someone on the non throwing in side. If you think that an error like this is intentional then every knock on in your games must be penalties for deliberate KOs!

 

[Browner]

I don't see what the issue is here.

[LAWS]LAW 19.2 QUICK THROW IN
(h) At a quick throw-in, a player must not prevent the ball being thrown in 5 metres.
Sanction: Free Kick on 15-metre line[/LAWS]

[LAWS]19.10 OPTIONS AVAILABLE IN A LINEOUT
(h) Blocking the throw-in. A lineout player must not stand less than 5 metres from the
touchline. A lineout player must not prevent the ball being thrown in 5 metres.
Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line[/LAWS]

It doesn't matter who throws and stop stops it going 5m, its a FK against the team of the player that stopped it going 5m and there are no options available.

End of!

He wasn't taking preventing action, so 19.2[h] doesn't apply, neither was he 'blocking' the throw, so neither does 19.10 [h]. Waspy has nailed it, 19.2 [e] a QTI law that specifically deals with a QTI 5m infringement ... gets my vote.

 

[Ian_Cook]

I haven't seen a clip at all, I was just going on Dixie's post in which he said that the thrower "prevented" the ball going in 5m. For me "prevent" is defined as keeping something from happening. It infers a deliberate act!

 

[OB..]

I haven't seen a clip at all, I was just going on Dixie's post in which he said that the thrower "prevented" the ball going in 5m. For me "prevent" is defined as keeping something from happening. It infers a deliberate act!

The catch can be deliberate without the breach of the 5m line being deliberate.

In this case I thought the catcher should have realised where he was

 

[Taff]

I haven't seen a clip at all, I was just going on Dixie's post in which he said that the thrower "prevented" the ball going in 5m.

Has anyone got a clip, because I'm struggling to imagine it?

For me:

If the thrower cocks it up and the ball fails to travel 5m - LO / Scrum option.
If the catcher (from either team) cocks it up it and grabs the ball before it's travelled 5m - FK

Whose fault was this one?

 

[Dixie]

Has anyone got a clip, because I'm struggling to imagine it?

For me:

If the thrower cocks it up and the ball fails to travel 5m - LO / Scrum option.
If the catcher (from either team) cocks it up it and grabs the ball before it's travelled 5m - FK

Whose fault was this one?

catcher

 

[Taff]

For me:

• If the thrower cocks it up and the ball fails to travel 5m - LO / Scrum option.
• If the catcher (from either team) cocks it up it and grabs the ball before it's travelled 5m - FK

Whose fault was this one?

catcher

If it was a C&O offence, FK on the 15m line then. :biggrin:

 

[OB..]

For me:

If the thrower cocks it up and the ball fails to travel 5m - LO / Scrum option.
If the catcher (from either team) cocks it up it and grabs the ball before it's travelled 5m - FK

There are big gaps in the 5m line, so if a lineout takes place in one of those and the ball is thrown straight to the man at the front, it is a judgement call whether or not the ball went 5m. That is the sort of unintentional offence that could attract the option.

Whose fault was this one?

The ball was thrown to a player the wrong side of the 5m line. Both thrower and catcher were at fault. As a coach I would mainly criticise the thrower for his poor judgement.

 

[crossref]

if it's a competive situation ie a line out, or a QTI where there two players on the 5m line either of whom could hope to catch it, and any player steps inside the 5m line, regardless of whivh team, then I will give a FK.

if it's a non-competitve situation, ie QTI to an unmarked player, then the ball still has to go 5m, but if it doesn't I am going to give options as per the law quoted. So I think JG was wrong to give FK.

 

[OB..]

if it's a competive situation ie a line out, or a QTI where there two players on the 5m line either of whom could hope to catch it, and any player steps inside the 5m line, regardless of whivh team, then I will give a FK.

if it's a non-competitve situation, ie QTI to an unmarked player, then the ball still has to go 5m, but if it doesn't I am going to give options as per the law quoted. So I think JG was wrong to give FK.

I wouldn't agree with that. In the latter case there is no excuse for the infringement.

In the former there may well be confusion over the precise location. If a player goes well across the (continutation of the) 5m line to prevent an opponent getting the ball, then that could indeed be a FK offence, but if two players are grabbing at it around the 5m line, I would probably see it as misjudgement.

 

[L'irlandais]

Nothing, we just don't understand ^^
I just love how french players in HCup or Amlin cup, just nod even if i'm pretty sure they didn't get a single word :biggrin: Especially with welsh or irish refs

I agree many players do not understand the Anglos.

However French players understand Alain Rolland better than most Welshmen.