Spear tackle

[spikeno10]

My winger was spear tackled by opponent yesterday. Driven into ground. The referee delivered a stern talking to and the match continued with a penalty.
We chose to run this and the same player then delivered a clothesline tackle again the referee delivered a stern talking too and the game continued.

It was this aside a very well natured match (friendly fixture) between two U16 teams. Referee suggested this was his reason for not removing player from the field. Was he right?

 

[TheBFG]

My winger was spear tackled by opponent yesterday. Driven into ground. The referee delivered a stern talking to and the match continued with a penalty.
We chose to run this and the same player then delivered a clothesline tackle again the referee delivered a stern talking too and the game continued.

It was this aside a very well natured match (friendly fixture) between two U16 teams. Referee suggested this was his reason for not removing player from the field. Was he right?

of course he was, he was the ref! That's not to say others may have taken a different approach:wink:

 

[crossref]

My winger was spear tackled by opponent yesterday. Driven into ground. The referee delivered a stern talking to and the match continued with a penalty.
We chose to run this and the same player then delivered a clothesline tackle again the referee delivered a stern talking too and the game continued.

It was this aside a very well natured match (friendly fixture) between two U16 teams. Referee suggested this was his reason for not removing player from the field. Was he right?

we had a spear tackle in an U14 friendly last week - lifted up, turned through horizontal and dropped, landing on shoulder. Ref gave :rc: . No complaints from anyone.

 

[OB..]

If assessing (but I don't do junior games) I would have disagreed. The player has effectively learned that he will only get penalised for it. He will not judge the subtlety that it needs to be a good-natured game. Indeed such an act might well stop the game being friendly unless firmly dealt with.

 

[Dixie]

Hi Spike - good to see you've finally got here from the RFU mini/midi forums, where you were far more active back in the day! Also good to see you are still mentoring your lads.

The RFU advice mirrors the iRB's on this - start at red and work down. For the tackle you describe, I'd not be moving away from the red card for the first offence. However, if I did bottle the first one, it would be to yellow - in which case the second offence would not have occurred.

Given that your ref went with the penalty for a potentially crippling tackle (and only he knows how his decision-making process went that day), he is open to severe criticism for bottling his second decision - credibility totally out of the window. That should have been a yellow at the least (straight red possible but unlikely, even given the previous warning).

 

[Simon Thomas]

was this a Society or Club referee ?

both offences sounds like straight reds from your descriptions.

 

[spikeno10]

The gentleman who took the game is a society referee.
Hi Dixie, yep still doing this, took my ELRA last year with my 15 year old son. He was on the pitch (playing) in the game and suggested in the car on the way home that he'd have gone for the red card for the first one.
Thankfully no injury following the tackle and the game finished in a good nature too.

 

[andyscott]

The gentleman who took the game is a society referee.
Hi Dixie, yep still doing this, took my ELRA last year with my 15 year old son. He was on the pitch (playing) in the game and suggested in the car on the way home that he'd have gone for the red card for the first one.
Thankfully no injury following the tackle and the game finished in a good nature too.

You had one view of it, the referee may have had a very very different angle. Would your son have suggested it would be a RC if it was one of his teammates?

They sound like RCs, but of course if you think they should be RCs, then your description would point in that direction.

 

[spikeno10]

Very good points Andy.

However the stern and very audible warnings clearly referred to a "spear tackle".

 

[Simon Thomas]

a conflict of call and action that would not be expected from a Society Referee.

 

[ROY T]

The referee give a stern warning and a penalty which suggests he knew that the tackle was unsafe and dangerous and therefore in my view worthy of a YC at least and preferably RC. If we are to punish, change unacceptable behaviour and educate the other players then not only are stern words required but also stern action.

 

[andyscott]

However the referee was correct in Law sanction being a PK

But maybe failed to follow guidance

Saying that spear or tip tackles are like punches for me, start at RC everytime

 

[chopper15]

Tip, Spear and Pile Driver?

IS there any accepted variation in the 'choreography' or, being RC offences, whether they're 'dropped' or 'driven' is simply irrelevent? :sad:

 

[The Fat]

Tip, Spear and Pile Driver?

IS there any accepted variation in the 'choreography' or, being RC offences, whether they're 'dropped' or 'driven' is simply irrelevent? :sad:

I make no distinction between dropped or driven. Same type of tackle = same result:rc:
It is the tackler's responsibility to ensure that the player is brought down safely if lifted above the horizontal

In the OP's description of a Society ref giving a stern talking to for a spear tackle and then leave the offender on the field suggests that it is time for an assessor to watch the next "friendly" under this ref's control. I wonder if an assessor had been present if the cards would have made an appearance?

 

[chopper15]

'Dropping' suggests indifference or even accident, not an easy decision. 'Driving' is nothing but vicious intent and pretty obvious . . . the difference in a YC and a RC, perhaps?

 

[Dixie]

'Dropping' suggests indifference or even accident, not an easy decision. 'Driving' is nothing but vicious intent and pretty obvious . . . the difference in a YC and a RC, perhaps?

No. Both are red card offences. The difference is the number of weeks of the ban.

 

[Deeps]

It is the tackler's responsibility to ensure that the player is brought down safely if lifted above the horizontal.

That's it in a nutshell, no further interpretation is necessary.

 

[Ian_Cook]

If everything is as described by you..

My winger was spear tackled by opponent yesterday. Driven into ground.

:norc:

We chose to run this and the same player then delivered a clothesline tackle

Normally, this could be worthy of

, but given that this player had just used his "Get out of jail free card"...:norc:

 

[andyscott]

We cant all moan about an IRB directive not being enforced on a Sunday when IRB and 'elite' referees dont enforce it. There has been many an occasion where the top level ref has just given a YC

 

[Simon Thomas]

Andy

"The Elite Game is a different sport with different management needs" is an oft heard phrase at National Leagues level 3 and 4, and Group and even Federation levels, plus at Society Training meetings on occasions.

I am not suggesting it is correct that the role models in match officiating do things differently to your assessor's advice, IRB and RFU guidance, etc but it is a fact of life and as you climb the promotion pole you need to accept it and get used to it.