[Law] Tap penalty to player already running: allowed?

[crossref]

How sure are you that rewording a poorly written law means change? There is a school of thought that says the rewording was a change, only tidying up.

There is a school of thought that the old law book didn't really mean single players either (see example above)

But really, it doesn't matter what the old law book said

 

[L'irlandais]

No. Because 9.11 covers it in an unchanged sort of way.

 

[crossref]

Yes, but then you need to be clear why this is dangerous, but a pop from a ruck is safe (unless you PK both, of course )

 

[thepercy]

The OP says it was a quickly taken penalty on the 5m line, you can’t walk them back 10.
Allowed to move and organize their defense I agree entirely. But they are specifically not allowed to charge before the tap. If he charges full tilt across the line at a static 9 five meters out, you will need to stop play to stretcher off the unfortunate scrumhalf before continuing play. In all likelihood he will flatten the 9 before he has taken the quick tap and you can probaly fill out a red card report to boot for recklessness.

A defending player can run forward, but not past the goal line until the tap, everything else you are saying is "just silly". Of course getting the timing right will be difficult but not impossible like you think.

 

[SimonSmith]

My club has a lineout play we call "Bangers"

Set up with 5. Ball off the top to 9, who gives it wide to our pod of 3 forwards usually 8, 6 and 7. Our 8 is a big guy. I've specifically told him to target the outside shoulder of the opposition 10.

To be fair, a lot of our plays, especially in the first 20 minutes, involve running big men at small players, and especially the 10; I like trying to destroy his confidence.

When Nick hits his shoulder off Bangers, I'm going to assume that he has roughly the same closing speed as the scenario we're discussing.

Can you tell me if I'm still allowed to run this play?

 

[thepercy]

If they are NOT near the goal line, would you allow the team who earned the PK to move about before the tap?

 

[crossref]

If they are NOT near the goal line, would you allow the team who earned the PK to move about before the tap?

If you are using 9.11 , then it's not a question of whether you are moving or not, it's a question of whether it's dangerous or not.

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.

Can you tell me if I'm still allowed to run this play?

Is it dangerous ?

 

[Decorily]

If you are using 9.11 , then it's not a question of whether you are moving or not, it's a question of whether it's dangerous or not.

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Is it dangerous ?

Is any scenario where a person is allowed run full speed into another person (possibly a much smaller person!) dangerous?
Is the game of rugby not inherently dangerous?

 

[Rich_NL]

Sounds like there's not even any need for a cavalry charge law, then.

 

[crossref]

Sounds like there's not even any need for a cavalry charge law, then.

It's an odd Law, that's for certain

 

[SimonSmith]

If you are using 9.11 , then it's not a question of whether you are moving or not, it's a question of whether it's dangerous or not.

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Is it dangerous ?

My very question. I think it presents the same degree of risk as the OP question

 

[Jz558]

My club has a lineout play we call "Bangers"

Set up with 5. Ball off the top to 9, who gives it wide to our pod of 3 forwards usually 8, 6 and 7. Our 8 is a big guy. I've specifically told him to target the outside shoulder of the opposition 10.

To be fair, a lot of our plays, especially in the first 20 minutes, involve running big men at small players, and especially the 10; I like trying to destroy his confidence.

When Nick hits his shoulder off Bangers, I'm going to assume that he has roughly the same closing speed as the scenario we're discussing.

Can you tell me if I'm still allowed to run this play?

Yes. What point are you making?

 

[didds]

Yes. What point are you making?

obviously his point is that they run a big bloke at speed at a smaller bloke. With tweo large blokes immediately with him to add extra OOOMPH as contact is made if they so desire.

very standard. I was the BC in a similar move we ran at about the time of the 1st Gulf war. The move was called SCUD and it became a nickname for me.

didds

 

[didds]

I have no idea but maybe because the 12 year old who drafted it can't remember what cavalry charges actually looked like and didnt know his arse from his elbow.

yup. Or in the simplification the bit about single player was left out without any thought whatsoever.

which is pretty much what Jz said!

 

[didds]

It's an odd Law, that's for certain

yup.

It was clearly "needed" at some point in histpry for safety.

then certainly since I started playing (circa 1975) up until quite recently everybody ran crash ball tap playes and nobody considered them cavalry charges.

Now it has reverted or is in the process of reverting to being considered so.

that's progress - or summat

 

[crossref]

Years ago we used to run PK moves off a "pivot" .. so the big guys would charge, and then the scrum half would tap and pass the pivot,
The ball and the big guys would arrive at the pivot at the same time, and the pivot would pop.

This was at school

Presumably we used a pivot as it was illegal for the scrum half to tap and pass, that would have been a cavalry charge

 

[didds]

... and the pivot may typically be just a couple of meters from the scrumhalf (who legs it out of the vicinity after the pass) and very flat of course.

didds

 

[crossref]

Exactly.

 

[Rich_NL]

It's only at 5m penalties. The defence can't move forward until the ball is tapped, but have to tackle the charger and stop him dead before he covers about 3.5 metres, from a standing start. A defender on their own is pretty much obliged to run forwards headfirst into someone big going at full belt, or concede a try.

This isn't the case with Simon's Bangers, because of the 15-20m gap that can be closed as soon as the ball comes off the top, or a tryline ruck that can be contested in a dynamic environment and requires much more skill and timing, with the defence practically at the gainline and allowed to advance as soon as the ball comes up. You rarely see it being used, tryline rucks are either pick and go or fling it wide - why might that be?

So maybe it's maintaining contest, maybe it's safety, maybe it's both.

 

[Phil E]

It's only at 5m penalties.

No it isn't.

[LAWS]Cavalry charge: An illegal type of attack, which usually happens near the goal line, when the
attacking team is awarded a penalty or free-kick. At a signal from the kicker, a line of attacking
players charge forward from a distance. When they get near, the kicker taps the ball and
passes to a player.[/LAWS]