The Cheats Charter

[andyscott]

So I had this today....

Yorkshire vs Lancs

When I arrived the selectors for north of England approached me and an email from twickenham said that even if a player receives a red or yellow card they can be replaced and no team can go down to 14.

So foul play,repeat infringements and cynical play - sanction Sub effectively.

Why was the YC brought into rugby?

Also why can't teams have a competitive game at this level that is not all about selection? The selectors didn't want a zero tolerance approach at the scrum!!!!

 

[Adam]

They obviously know what you're like Andy!

 

[Browner]

So I had this today....

Yorkshire vs Lancs

When I arrived the selectors for north of England approached me and an email from twickenham said that even if a player receives a red or yellow card they can be replaced and no team can go down to 14.

So foul play,repeat infringements and cynical play - sanction Sub effectively.

Why was the YC brought into rugby?

Also why can't teams have a competitive game at this level that is not all about selection? The selectors didn't want a zero tolerance approach at the scrum!!!!

I'm surprised to hear of such ......... imagine the influence that Ed Morrison walked away from? ..... "selectors didn't want" :wtf:

 

[colesy]

This memo has been kicking around for a week or two.

"Following a number of queries to the Rugby Events and Competitions Department regarding squad sizes and yellow/red cards for the U16 county games which are currently taking place.

Clarification below to the U16 County Team Managers and Coaches.

Yellow Cards:
In the event of a yellow card the player will be replaced for 10 minutes – no team is to go down to 14 aside.

Red Cards:
In the event of a red card the player will be replaced for the remainder of the match – no team is to go down to 14 aside.

Player Rotation:
this is permitted, ie. players can leave the pitch and then go back on, and we recommend that no player plays less than 17.5 minutes (half of a half).

Squad size:
Up to 23 – see below

If a team nominates 22 players, it must have at least six players who can play in the front row in order that there is replacement cover for the loose head prop, hooker and tight head prop.

If a team nominates more than 22 players it must have at least six players who can play in the front row in order that there is replacement cover for the loose head prop, hooker and tight head prop. There must also be three players who can play in lock position."

 

[Browner]

Oh... I see , they're training sessions, I didn't pick up on that.

 

[tim White]

Did you ask for a complete list of the Laws you were to ignore for them?

If they don't want Zero Tolerance at the scrum they need an IRB e-mail, this clearly trumps an RFU one.

Thank them for the information, tell them YELLOW means YELLOW, RED means RED, then ref the game as you are supposed to. If they want a training session then they should have arranged one, the players will be playing competitively and you should referee as normal.

To approach you just before kick-off puts you under enormous pressure and this situation was handled very badly :wtf:

 

[OB..]

You should certainly have been told beforehand, but it is not unreasonable for them to assume that you would have been notified by your society when they appointed you.

As colsey says, the memo is official and has been around for a while.

I would strongly advise against getting on your high horse and refusing to implement it.

 

[Stuartg]

I had this last week with Cambridgeshire v Suffolk. The coaches knew nothing about it and were, to say the least, as astonished as I was. I think that disguted sums it up. And no, it was not a traing game as far as I, or anyone else was concerned.

There was no question of a yellow card being needed, so wasn't an issue. The score was Cambridgeshire 35 Suffolk 36 with Suffolk winning with the final kick (a conversion wide out) in torrential rain.

 

[Nigib]

In my experience county junior trial games are all played exactly as described. Players are then 'selected' for regional.

 

[Waspsfan]

Will this be the case for the County U20 games?

 

[Phil E]

So I had this today....

Yorkshire vs Lancs!!

Was this under 16?

I had this last week with Cambridgeshire v Suffolk.

Was this under 16?

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?16906-U16-County-Games

 

[andyscott]

No they are competitive games and today had 3 level 6 referees.

The parents and supporters watching take it seriously.

 

[andyscott]

You should certainly have been told beforehand, but it is not unreasonable for them to assume that you would have been notified by your society when they appointed you.

As colsey says, the memo is official and has been around for a while.

I would strongly advise against getting on your high horse and refusing to implement it.

I would always implement it, but if I am appointed to one again I may have a little injury that week

- - - Updated - - -

Was this under 16?



Was this under 16?

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?16906-U16-County-Games

Yes it was

 

[didds]

*shrug*

not your problem.

Ref as normal and let the selectors and coaches sort out the rest.

didds

 

[Simon Thomas]

There is a lot of smelly brown stuff flying around after we got the memo from RFU, but for now we have appointed on the basis requested but with major reservations expressed by our Society Committee back up the management tree.

This is yet another example of the shift in RFU power base, with the apparent downgrading of match officiating.

 

[crossref]

I know I asked you this before, but seriously, what would it take for the society to refuse to appoint
If not this.

 

[Simon Thomas]

I know I asked you this before, but seriously, what would it take for the society to refuse to appoint
If not this.

No comment

 

[Chris_j]

I saw this a few weeks ago. ARing for U16s friendly/trial. Also last season for U17s.

Scenario. Player pumped up for trial. Knows he can't be sent off. Tip tackles and breaks someone's neck. Who is to blame?

I will be gunning for the coaches as a CBSM. The ref has been disenfranchised by this approach and may as well not be there. Perhaps we shouldn't be there! The crap rolled out is 'we've got 30 players here and need to see them all.'

So what. If they can't stay on the pitch in a trial what right have they got to be there for the real thing?

 

[thepercy]

I saw this a few weeks ago. ARing for U16s friendly/trial. Also last season for U17s.

Scenario. Player pumped up for trial. Knows he can't be sent off. Tip tackles and breaks someone's neck. Who is to blame?

I will be gunning for the coaches as a CBSM. The ref has been disenfranchised by this approach and may as well not be there. Perhaps we shouldn't be there! The crap rolled out is 'we've got 30 players here and need to see them all.'

So what. If they can't stay on the pitch in a trial what right have they got to be there for the real thing?

I think from what I read above the player can still be cautioned and temporarily suspended, or sent off. However, the team will not be penalized by having to play down a man, so as that the selectors can watch as many players as possible. Which some of our colleagues, if I may presume, think may not be equitable, and may some how encourage bad behavior. I do think the peer pressure of your clubmates being disapointed in you because they have to play at a disadvantage for a period of time is a discouragment to bad behavior, and that is lost in this format. I suppose some of that is lost here because this is an all-star game and not your regular clubmates, but then again some more pressure to behave may be added because the players are aware the selectors are watching and trying to put on their best effort. I guess it is not an ideal situation to be put in as a referee, and may be confusing for spectators and players, and coaches, unaware of the special request, but in my opinion I don't think it is going to make the game less fair or more unsafe. In fact, some on this forum give the option to sub a player rather than yellow card him, to the captain when there is not a special agreement in place.

Percy

 

[Browner]

I saw this a few weeks ago. ARing for U16s friendly/trial. Also last season for U17s.

Scenario. Player pumped up for trial. Knows he can't be sent off. Tip tackles and breaks someone's neck. Who is to blame?

I will be gunning for the coaches as a CBSM. The ref has been disenfranchised by this approach and may as well not be there. Perhaps we shouldn't be there! The crap rolled out is 'we've got 30 players here and need to see them all.'

So what. If they can't stay on the pitch in a trial what right have they got to be there for the real thing?

i'm curious - how does he?