'Walk Ten' option.

[SimonSmith]

Welcome to Chopperville

You'll Never Leave

Rugbyrefs.com is like Hotel california: you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

**** the sherry. Pull up a chair, put on the music and pass the whisky. This is going to be like watching a train wreck.

 

[Robert Burns]

Like this one?

 

[DrSTU]

Thanks boss man, it's perfect:hap:

Like this one?

 

[ddjamo]

I used to block chopper - now I applaud him. he keeps the "bullies" in check. some here post as if they are the ultimate authority and he questions it. being a libertarian I can appreciate that.

 

[Dickie E]

I used to block chopper - now I applaud him. he keeps the "bullies" in check. some here post as if they are the ultimate authority and he questions it. being a libertarian I can appreciate that.

Ditto. Funny how some feel the need to announce when they no longer plan to participate. I'm sure they lurk in the shadows ready to rejoin when the whim takes them.

 

[ddjamo]

I used to get upset because a good topic would get muddied by nonsensical questions...I would wake up the next day and there were 3 new pages on an interesting thread and they were all from chopper and his arch rivals....would piss me off...now I think it's funny.

 

[Robert Burns]

'this', in your words, "I can advance it, but it wont be the full 10m as I can only go as far as the 5m line".

Chopper, that's not a question that Bryan is asking, it's an action he's doing.

If there is room to advance the penalty, but it cannot be advanced the full 10m then he will advance it as far as he can.

 

[PaulDG]

Chopper,

:hap: You stated: "I can advance it, but it wont be the full 10m as I can only go as far as the 5m line".

Yes, he stated it. He stated it as a comment on this discussion board.

He did not mean to give any implication at all that those are the form of words he would use on the pitch.

Like every other ref from below my level all the way up to Alain Rolland, there is no "asking", nor any form of words used when walking forward 10. In fact, we all do our best to give clear body language that says "do not imagine for a microsecond there is anything to discuss here.. I am advancing the mark... unless you want to spend some time off the pitch and perhaps have me walk another 10m, shut the f*ck up and get back. Do this NOW!"

I asked: " Is it customary for refs to ask this, particularly at elite levels?

No. Absolutely not. Never, Ever. And this is not just elites.

 

[Drift]

How's about. If the 5m line is a shade short of 10 paces does the ref take shorter steps?

. . . . and who's Eddie?

It's not paces!!! It's metres, the number of paces it takes to get to 10 metres doesn't matter.

 

[chopper15]

Rob, if possible can you provide us with a "car wreck" emoticon. Would be very useful for this thread!

Don't wonder at these reactions when you only focus on the demeaning put downs and blatant misrepresentations such as this one from the respected SimonT . . . Pacing any direction for an extra 10m in anything but parallel to touch is not going to happen at any level of rugby - forget it. .

And why forget it? :sad: It's only a discussion for goodness sakes.

And please remember when you accuse me of going around in circles and repeating myself. I bravely attempt to clarify my statement to all of you.

Set up a poll to decide which is preferred. Walk ten to the posts or parallel with the TL.

 

[chopper15]

Chopper, that's not a question that Bryan is asking, it's an action he's doing.

If there is room to advance the penalty, but it cannot be advanced the full 10m then he will advance it as far as he can.

Robert, please tell me. Are refs at an elite level prepared to walk 5 to the 5m line if needs be? I got the impression from Bryan's comment that they may just do that.

And Paul, your post #68, last sentence. I assume your answer was for 'asking' not 'doing'. I mention this as I did read it and appreciated it. Thank you and all for the various clarifications and answers.

 

[chopper15]

I used to get upset because a good topic would get muddied by nonsensical questions...I would wake up the next day and there were 3 new pages on an interesting thread and they were all from chopper and his arch rivals....would piss me off...now I think it's funny.

. . . not even more informative, ddjamo?

Surely you recognise evasive waffle when you read it. But apart from that unfortunate trait we do get a lot more info than if we let sleeping dogs lie . . . . surely?

 

[Bryan]

Robert, please tell me. Are refs at an elite level prepared to walk 5 to the 5m line if needs be? I got the impression from Bryan's comment that they may just do that.

YES.

And so would every other referee who awards an additional penalty/FK after one has already been awarded within 10m of the offending team's 5m line.

e.g. PK for not rolling away awarding 12m from offending team's goal line.
Quick tap by non-offending team's scrum-half
Lazy defender on offending team not quick enough to retire, tackles scrum-half almost immediately at the place of infringement
Referees will play advantage, but presuming none is accruing will ADVANCE the mark of the PK to the 5m line of the offending team

This is global. There is no question asking. How many games have you watched? Probably more than me, by at least an order of magnitude.

 

[PaulDG]

Robert, please tell me. Are refs at an elite level prepared to walk 5 to the 5m line if needs be? I got the impression from Bryan's comment that they may just do that.

Yes.

It's unusual though as professional players recognise the danger they're in when they're that close to the line and don't tend to give any cause for a second penalty.

And Paul, your post #68, last sentence. I assume your answer was for 'asking' not 'doing'. I mention this as I did read it and appreciated it. Thank you and all for the various clarifications and answers.

Yes. Referees do not ask about moving the mark forward. Players can, after all, take their kicks from anywhere behind the mark (on a line parallel to the touchline and through the mark), so if they don't want it 10m forward, they don't have to take it.

(Apparently that last part is why an experiment in Association Football with moving the mark 10m forward was abandoned. There is, apparently, little to be gained in professional football from having the kick 10 closer either to the opposition goal line or even directly towards the goal - top professional footballers can put the ball in the net or more or less anywhere they want in the penalty box from almost anywhere on the pitch so moving 10m closer made little difference and may actually have been a disadvantage as it could reduce the space to "bend it".

And, because the advantage created/lost that way was small, the 10m walk was not a deterrent.

While I can see that being true at their elite levels, I'd have thought it would be a real sanction in the amateur game where skill levels are clearly much lower and a free kick 10m closer to the goal could be the difference between a win or a lose, so it seems sad it wasn't adopted.

Then again, perhaps they don't really care about referees being abused after making a decision.)

 

[PaulDG]

e.g. PK for not rolling away awarding 12m from offending team's goal line.
Quick tap by non-offending team's scrum-half
Lazy defender on offending team not quick enough to retire, tackles scrum-half almost immediately at the place of infringement
Referees will play advantage, but presuming none is accruing will ADVANCE the mark of the PK to the 5m line of the offending team

This is global. There is no question asking. How many games have you watched? Probably more than me, by at least an order of magnitude.

Perhaps the issue is that this sequence of events tends not to be obvious in TV games?

Player tackled 12m out. Penalty. Lazy opposition tackles early - penalty advantage.

No advantage... Peep!

In elite matches play could well have moved to the other side of the pitch and they'll now be a pause as cards will almost certainly come out too.

When the ref eventually makes the mark on the 5m, chances are few of the spectators remember what the original offence was and just see the ref making a mark on the "old" side of the pitch at a point that seems arbitrary [to them] and, if they are supporting the attacking side, looks like a great scoring opportunity as with only 14 on the defending side and a penalty on the 5m, the attackers will plump for a scrum and go for the push over or pick and drive.

How they ended up on the 5m will be one of the mysteries of rugby to many watching - and pundit commentators will almost certainly not think of nor mention the mark being brought forward. (If they even notice it themselves!)

 

[Bryan]

How they ended up on the 5m will be one of the mysteries of rugby to many watching - and pundit commentators will almost certainly not think of nor mention the mark being brought forward. (If they even notice it themselves!)

I agree. This, however, is Chopper. While out of left field, he does take the time to read the law book. Heavy emphasis on read. So I would think he understands the concept of "advances the mark 10m".

The 10m "in any direction" is an interesting concept, but that means we're going to get into jobsworths advancing 10m with a ruler. The "extra-10m" works fine as it stands. I see that there's value in the 10m sideways to be closer to a direct shot at goal, but not enough for me to want to trial it as a law. As the Jappies; they're keen on sh!t like that and experimenting with laws to see what effects (predicted or not) it has on the game.

 

[DrSTU]

Since I haven't got much time to post at the moment. I'll quickly put my 2p in.

The law says advance 10m, the dictionary definition of advance is to move forward. If the law said advancement or advantage of 10m then I think you might have a point but as it stands you are failing to understand the basics of the English language.

I can guarantee that if I went to my boss and said "I've made some real advances today" he ain't gonna be too chuffed if I then show him data that's moved us sideways!

Don't wonder at these reactions when you only focus on the demeaning put downs and blatant misrepresentations such as this one from the respected SimonT . . . Pacing any direction for an extra 10m in anything but parallel to touch is not going to happen at any level of rugby - forget it. .

And why forget it? :sad: It's only a discussion for goodness sakes.

And please remember when you accuse me of going around in circles and repeating myself. I bravely attempt to clarify my statement to all of you.

Set up a poll to decide which is preferred. Walk ten to the posts or parallel with the TL.

 

[andyscott]

Don't walk anyone 10m, YC is your tool of choice for that situation.

 

[OB..]

Don't wonder at these reactions when you only focus on the demeaning put downs and blatant misrepresentations such as this one from the respected SimonT . . . Pacing any direction for an extra 10m in anything but parallel to touch is not going to happen at any level of rugby - forget it. .

And why forget it? :sad: It's only a discussion for goodness sakes.

And please remember when you accuse me of going around in circles and repeating myself. I bravely attempt to clarify my statement to all of you.

Set up a poll to decide which is preferred. Walk ten to the posts or parallel with the TL.

We all know that the laws are often poorly written. Finding a possible example does not in itself mean much. In this case there will be no change in the way people referee because the interpretation is far too well established.

If you wish to argue for a change in the law, then by all means put forward your case, but please don't obscure it by references to current law.

 

[chopper15]

Don't walk anyone 10m, YC is your tool of choice for that situation.

EXACTLY, andy. :clap: Hence the wording of my opening query, 'What is the equitable equivalent for the 'walk ten' sanction when it's not a practical option? My point being, if there isn't one get rid of it.