Wayne Barnes in Wales

[chief]

His performance seemed a little off today. He missed a few forward passes from Australia.

He failed to Yellow Card a Australian scrum after I think about 7 scrum penalties. Far too significant amount of penalties without further sanction. This was the most disappointing facet of the game. How many scrum penalties have to occur before the bloke is binned?

His ruck game seemed a bit off as well too. There were a lot of hands in the ruck, where clearly a ruck was formed. I believe there were only about 4 or 5 ruck penalties called as well.

 

[The umpire]

Actually, and not being his biggest fan, I thought he had a good game today.

 

[The Fat]

Actually, and not being his biggest fan, I thought he had a good game today.

Agree. I thought he was generally good with clear communication. However, I do agree with Chief about the scrum. I was fairly confident that a PT was likely just before Wales scored their try. Mabybe he was a bit more lenient as the turf gave way a few times (maybe that roof needed closing earlier in the week Davet?).
The Aussie scrum was a joke. As soon as the ball was fed by the Welsh SH, 6,7 & 8 would pop their heads up effectively reducing the contest to 8 on 5. After the game Elsom was asked for his thoughts on the scrum and he answered that he would have to watch the tapes to see what was happening. WTF???
I did see a couple of things in the ruck that were not picked up but the ref will not see absolutely everything that goes on as he is only looking at the ruck from one view.
I would have rated him 7.5 - 8 out of 10 Chief.

 

[chief]

Sorry I should clarify. Barnes wasn't bad. I think he was above average. But Barnes is one of the best in the world, he just seemed average or a bit above! We've all seen Barnes do better, and we know he can.

I'd give him a 7 too actually after watching it again. He allowed a very free flowing game. I watched the game again just then, and I will admit my mistake, I think Barnes only had about 2 or 3 ruck decisions which were incorrect, which is pretty tremendous.

Apologies, it appears I let my passion for my team, cloud my judgement!

 

[Iron_Lung]

I had the same thoughts throughout the game (why wasn't a prop binned?), but I'm now wondering if it wasn't because a number of the penalties were for different things. I know at least 2 (possibly more?) of the penalties were for Elsom, Pocock and McCalman unbinding early...

As a philosophical discussion, are penalties at the scrum treated the same as the ruck, as in too many generally gets you a YC, or is it too many of the same kind get you the YC? If you got 4 penalties for binding/collapsing and 4 for back row infringements, would you still be expecting a YC?

Still, I thought Barnes should have had more of a word earlier to get the Aussie front row sorted. They were losing the hit and folding in on almost every scrum, particularly Alexander. One wonders if last week's experience with Allain Rolland hadn't made them gunshy?

 

[The Fat]

Thought his CTPE sequence was good

 

[Iron_Lung]

Don't disagree... just wondering if the Aussies failed to adjust after last week... almost as if they were too afraid of an early engagement...

 

[the magpie]

I think there were two things wrong with the scrum last night.

First was the Wallabies were too timid, after Rolland's poor scrum engagement calling last week, and didn't want to early engage this week.

Second was Adam Jones clearly boring in on Fainga'a, meaning that Fainga'a was being popped, although this seemed to stop once Edmonds came on. At one stage, Jones was perpendicular to Benn Robinson.

Strangely, not once did Wayne Barnes penalise the Welsh scrum for illegal scrummaging.

 

[chopper15]

Just after the restart Oz were threatening to run in a try from the Welsh 22 and Barnes pinged Giteau for a KO.

Please confirm that he was obviously wrong as the ball went behind him and bounced forward only when it hit the ground.:sad:

 

[Simon Thomas]

Just after the restart Oz were threatening to run in a try from the Welsh 22 and Barnes pinged Giteau for a KO.

Please confirm that he was obviously wrong as the ball went behind him and bounced forward only when it hit the ground.:sad:

Yes Chopper - well spotted. I had a similar moment when I saw it.

Stuart Barnes implied it was forward as ball had rolled forward chin: ) - but let's ignore him.

I saw it as the ball going straight down as Gits moved past it (so forward relative to his hand and ground initially (so agreed with Wayne Barnes decision).

But I would not have been critical if it had been given the other way. Wayne was clser than you or me so I go with his call.

 

[chopper15]

Yes Chopper - well spotted. I had a similar moment when I saw it.
I saw it as the ball going straight down as Gits moved past it (so forward relative to his hand and ground initially (so agreed with Wayne Barnes decision).

Just had a look-see, Simon. A try was possibly on and it was an obvious fumble backwards, then it bounced forward . . and Barnes was not only well positioned but had time to see it.

Just wondered if he was having another international abberration aka QT/5m incident a few months ago. :biggrin: . . . that's when an AR could assist . . if he was allowed to.:clap:


PS. In the 57 min I noted Barnes didn't choose to let play continue when querying a KO or grounding decision from the TMO. :Zip:

 

[didds]

They were losing the hit and folding in on almost every scrum, particularly Alexander.

If he's the (second) best TH in Australia then you guys have a real problem. He was bloody awful. He needs to learn body shape and get some trunk strength. True his oppo wasn't binding properly but whether that's right or not I am not convinced he'd have done any better if everything was run correctly.
Pants.

didds

 

[Account Deleted]

There were 4 penalties against the Aussie FR 3 of those against Alexander.

 

[andybzoso]

there was an incident in the second half (I think!) that I thought was interesting... Wales broke to Oz 5m line, attacker was isolated and Elsom and someone else leaned over the tackled player but seemed to make no effort to actually rip the ball away - WB gave a penalty for holding on. Fair enough if they are trying to lift the ball away but - if not then all they are doing is sealing off the contest for the ball. It wasn't the tackled players fault that the ozzies weren't getting the ball - they were making no effort to get it!! What are your thoughts??

 

[chopper15]

there was an incident in the second half (I think!) that I thought was interesting... Wales broke to Oz 5m line, attacker was isolated and Elsom and someone else leaned over the tackled player but seemed to make no effort to actually rip the ball away - WB gave a penalty for holding on. Fair enough if they are trying to lift the ball away but - if not then all they are doing is sealing off the contest for the ball. It wasn't the tackled players fault that the ozzies weren't getting the ball - they were making no effort to get it!! What are your thoughts??

I've also noticed that their weight seems to be supported on the arms.

15.6 (a) After a tackle, all other players must be on their feet when they play the ball. Players are on their feet if no other part of their body is supported by the ground or players on the ground.

Refs appear not too keen to warn let alone sanction on this one.

 

[Jenko]

Is it me or do Australia deliberately slow down the actual formation of the scrum as well. The number of times there was a lace undone or an injury that slowed the formation of the scrum down. Barnes seemed to be constantly chivvying them up. Could he have gone to a free kick sanction? Suppose that would have been worthless as Wales would have probably opted for a scrum anyway!

WRT the forward decision from Giteau I perceived that the ball hit the ground in front of the position that it hit giteau. Appeared to go back as Giteau was travelling forward!

 

[The umpire]

there was an incident in the second half (I think!) that I thought was interesting... Wales broke to Oz 5m line, attacker was isolated and Elsom and someone else leaned over the tackled player but seemed to make no effort to actually rip the ball away - WB gave a penalty for holding on. Fair enough if they are trying to lift the ball away but - if not then all they are doing is sealing off the contest for the ball. It wasn't the tackled players fault that the ozzies weren't getting the ball - they were making no effort to get it!! What are your thoughts??

I noticed that as well, in fact there were two aussies doing it, just hanging over the player on the round waiting for the penalty presumably. Very Odd.

 

[Dixie]

I've also noticed that their weight seems to be supported on the arms.

15.6 (a) After a tackle, all other players must be on their feet when they play the ball. Players are on their feet if no other part of their body is supported by the ground or players on the ground.

Refs appear not too keen to warn let alone sanction on this one.

Quite right Chopper. Also, the position inevitably gets shoulders below hips. The commentators referred to this as perfect technique, I think - but then, what do they know??? Learned terrace refs are way ahead of the game.

 

[chopper15]

WRT the forward decision from Giteau I perceived that the ball hit the ground in front of the position that it hit giteau. Appeared to go back as Giteau was travelling forward!

Good point, Jenko.

But it was further behind him when it bounced forward than the spot where he contacted it.

And as I said, Barnes was positioned to have more than just a fleeting glance of it . . and a try was possibly on.

 

[chbg]

Good point, Jenko.

But it was further behind him when it bounced forward than the spot where he contacted it.

And as I said, Barnes was positioned to have more than just a fleeting glance of it . . and a try was possibly on.

You're not trying to call this a 'momentum' knock-on are you? :wow: I recall that the ball landed forward of where he fumbled it.

Agree with other posters about Aussies leaning on the ground to get the 'holding on' call.

Accept that the scrums were difficult - certainly not 'bcm666-steady' - but is feeding creeping back into the elite game?