What the f*** is happening with Lancashire's Leagues

[red rose lad]

this is nothing to do with Lancashire blazers, the players tell us that its getting too much to travel up to Cumbria on Saturdays due to work, money issues ie not working Saturday, there mortgages are more than ours were, plus there wives, girl friends are not as tolerant as mine was.
Also its having an effect on lower sides last minute cry off's, as usual bottom sides cop for it, end up with no game, then some smart arse thinks a good idea to chuck them out of the league after 3 games missed and usually not any fault of the bottom side
I have been fixture and referee secretary at my club for 30 years, I have a look at our old fixture list, I reckon we have lost approximately 70 sides in that time, no wonder RDO'S are ringing up on Monday's to see how many Adult side played on Saturday

 

[Camquin]

There is a quirk of geography.

Lancashire clubs are almost all in the M62 belt so have very little travel at level 8.
Get to level 7 and if you are placed in NLC you have seven clubs in the league over a hundred miles away - the roads are not good so a two hour drive to get there.

Get promoted again and you are down to three trips to Cumbria.
In fact the travel might not be as bad again until you to National 1. (level 3)

If you are a mile South and in SLC and all the clubs are within 50 miles.
And you do not get long journeys until level 6 - with three trips to Cumbria a few minutes longer than your neighbours.

If you are Cumbrian the travel at level 7 is just as bad as for the Lancashire clubs,worse as you have six trips round Cumbria.
But it gets worse each time you are promoted.
But you are Cumbrian, travel is a fact of life.

The complaints from Lancashire were one of the reasons for the Adult Game Review.

Unfortunately the AGR panel struggled to find their brain with both hands and a map.

In North Lancashire It suggested a 12 team NLC league (two from North 1 W and ten from NLC) with additional cup with each club in a pool with clubs from across the North and Midlands, followed by cup, plate, shield and bowl competitions. So 10 or more long journeys instead of 7 and more games to play.

It would also have cost RFU a fortune in travel funding and prize money for the cups. But as travel funding does not cover travel costs, the winning club might have afforded a pint of beer for the players - but would have had to pay for the 20 straws.

Oddly they were not accepted.

 

[Phil E]

It would also have cost RFU a fortune in travel funding and prize money for the cups. But as travel funding does not cover travel costs, the winning club might have afforded a pint of beer for the players - but would have had to pay for the 20 straws.

As long as they aren't plastic straws :nono:

 

[WombleRef]

NOWIRUL has seen several clubs ready to go back into the RFU leagues (at Level 9) end up staying and getting promoted into Division 2 this year. Chorley and Colne and Nelson appeared to have been ready to go into a NLC Level 9 league but with the restructure that will never happen.

 

[Camquin]

Well its all change - regulation 13 has been torn up and there will be separate Lancashire/Cumbshire and Cumbrian league,with three leagues in LC and two in Cumbria. Cumbrians spitting tacks on twitter.

http://www.rfunorth.com/news/North-West%20Restructure_pub_v2.pdf

 

[crossref]

seems like they got pragmatic at the 11th hour ?

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Pragmatic my ar*e. Cumbria clubs have been shafted by the RFU and Lancashire. They have obviously decided the game doesn't matter up here. They will pay whatever it takes to allow teams to travel to the Isle of Man but we can just stay isolated on our own. Disgraceful

 

[Camquin]

Apparently Cumbria has appealed,

 

[crossref]

Apparently Cumbria has appealed,

who can they appeal to ?

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Below and including N1W (L6) I notice there's no fixtures at all - only Yorkshire and Durham & Northumberland fixtures - on englandrugby.com and rfunorth.

Not good.

 

[colesy]

Six Cumbrian clubs have appealed. Until the appeal is determined, the league structures in the north west cannot be confirmed. The intermediate league fixtures also cannot be confirmed until the result of the appeal is known.

 

[Camquin]

Stupid suggestion.
How good are the clubs in Dumfries and Galloway?

 

[WombleRef]

Fixtures would be good...

 

[red rose lad]

Fixtures would be good...

RFU are listening to Cumbrian clubs appeal today

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

They listened to the appeal and are meeting again on 16th July at Preston GH

 

[WombleRef]

They listened to the appeal and are meeting again on 16th July at Preston GH

What do you think the appeal will actually be?

My personal view is that each county needs it's own league structure up to North One West, at which point 3 teams get relegated and put into the appropriate leagues.

Cumbrian non 1st XV teams should be invited into the RFU league structure and placed in appropriate leagues of Level 8 and below as has been successfully done in Eastern Counties.
With similar happening to the 2nd teams (or 3rd teams for clubs at Level 6/7 who should retain a 2nd team reserve league seperate to the structure). It's worked down south so why can't proper regional leagues work here?

 

[Camquin]

Point of Information

Eastern Counties 1 is a level 9 league.
It is player as three pools roughly based on Counties and then a second phase in tiers.

Second teams are not permitted in the London Division Leagues - level 8 and above.
Had a second team won EC1, I believe the strongest 1st team would have been promoted.

London 3 NE was recently split into London 3 Essex and London 3 Eastern Counties to reduce travel.
The other three level 8 leagues in London are the same territory as the level 7.
And in London NW there is a single league (Herts Middx) at level 9 and level 10

The Midlands leagues do not split below level 7.
Yorkshire is a single league below level 7 though some Teeside clubs play in D/N

Most counties follow pre 1975 borders - except Lancashire. As Furness and Westmoreland merged with Cumberland.
Had that not happened the Liverpool clubs would still have been visiting Barrow.

The lady doing the Reith Lectures described Nella Last as coming from "a town just North of Liverpool" - which shows how little most people know of geography.

 

[OB..]

Second teams are not permitted in the London Division Leagues - level 8 and above.

That is the case for all RFU leagues.

 

[Camquin]

Mind you the current proposal required amendments to regulation 13 to permit three leagues.
So why not take it further and amend it to permit 2nd XVs at level 7 in certain leagues.

 

[didds]

That is the case for all RFU leagues.

AIUI 2nd XVs can play in D&W division 1s.

This was Chippenham's concern for many years (and may well still be)... that while their 1st XV was playing level etc, their 2nd XV couldn't play in a league above level 8, leaving their second string step ups hugely below the expectations of what they would come against.

didds