[Law] Can a player return from a Yellow Card when the clock is beyond 80 minutes?

[crossref]

At the most basic level we can discard any complicated scenario and come back to this

- Red player has a YC, time has expired, he's waiting to come on
- Blue commit a PK offence
- PK is awarded to Red
- Can Red bring the YC player on to the field before they take the PK ?

Answer (surely) : Yes

 

[Rushforth]

A YC may be awarded in the last 10 minutes of the game under the principle of "counting back from RC". The only potential RC I've known that I've missed for sure was a tip tackle with too many bodies in between, so I couldn't even give a YC to the infringing player - in the first half - and the only RC I have given was to the captain of a U15 side for joining an already finished bit of handbags well before the last 10 minutes, so I can't speak from experience, but in a match that has been relatively friendly for 70 minutes I can imagine pulling yellow more easily if I know the player won't be back.

Gosh that was a long sentence. My point is that each match needs to be managed. Patterns need to be looked for, too.

 

[winchesterref]

It's "last-play". He has no right to be involved as he was sanctioned at the start.

You're just making it up

 

[winchesterref]

- - - Updated - - -

didds,
Yes really.
I have never heard of a game running to 20 minutes into the red! (Allowing that the clock shows playing time) that means that a 3pm kick-off is still going at 5pm. Every breakdown involves several faults than go unpunished for the sake of a free flowing game. ( 9 digging out the ball for example) More than happy to blow for a knock-on. You as a coach will be 50m from play, all you will be aware is the ref called time.

You can't just make it up either. Be consistent and fair.

 

[L'irlandais]

Certainly not making it up.
Didds post #88 suggested a situation where the game over runs the 80 minutes by as much as 20 minutes. Something unheard of in the game. I would stop play in the name of player safety.

All my involvement in rugby here in France has been with underage. The matches are refereed by educators, rather than referees as in the UK. An educator is somebody who coaches the kids too. My job is to ensure teenagers enjoy the game, in safe conditions. U6 to U19 it is about adapting the adult game to make allowances that these are adolescents : iRB rules state an Under-19 game has two 35-minute halves for a total of 70 minutes. Games cannot over run because we know than serious injuries occur when players are pushed to make efforts with tired muscles. Perhaps the adult game needs to take player safety more seriously too from that aspect. (Sevens has similar restrictions on time.)

 

[winchesterref]

You can't stop a game fairly by making up an infringement, or by ending it because there is a chance that it might be unsafe if the players get too tired. What about a highly intense 35 minutes? Do you call it off at half time because the poor lambs might be too exhausted for the 2nd half? Repeating the above, you're making it up to suit yourself.

 

[winchesterref]

There is a caveat to that by the way, that the laws aren't explicit for U19s like they are for adult rugby in the time played. Coventionally we don't just stop at 70 minutes though, like an RL tackle then blow full time, do we?

 

[L'irlandais]

Variations specific to French Union.
I can promise you the U19 A, B, (2x35) C and D (2x30) carry the mentions
Jamais de prolongations
Temps morts : Non
No overtime and no time off.

Pretty explicit. And there entirely in the interests of player safety, following extensive medical research by the French Union into underage rugby.

 

[winchesterref]

I can't open any of the files on my phone. It does not mention over time in U19 variations anyway but does in adult laws.

So what do you do, clock ticks 70 and you blow the whistle immediately? If not how do you decide when to end it? How is it equitable to make up an offence to end the game? If a team is pushing for a score how much longer are you going to play? 70 mins and 30 secs, 71, 75? What if the game has been slow and the players aren't tired?

 

[L'irlandais]

?..How is it equitable to make up an offence to end the game?...

in the absurd unending scenario in post #88, I proposed an absurdly simple way out.
Of course if your Union says no, the referee must continue, then fine. In the end some outside authority, like medical doctors, or your own government is going to step in and dictate that player safety come first.

 

[Phil E]

iRB rules state an Under-19 game has two 35-minute halves for a total of 70 minutes. Games cannot over run....

That's incorrect, they can over run. You can't stop the game if the ball is still live. What you can't do is play extra time such as a an extra 10 minutes each way in the event of a draw.

 

[Pegleg]

IRB is 80 minutes "PLAYING TIME" with no whistle until the ball is dead. So you stop clock for injuries etc. Phil E is right. Of course the French can have their own variations.

 

[didds]

You're just making it up

Totally agree.

Didds

 

[didds]

My absurd example is exactly that to demonstrate how absurd this "last play, no return" idea is.

Here's some other ideas then.

Plaer receiveds card in the 31st minute. First half however continues past 40 minutes due to pk award(s). Are you really not going to allow the carded player on after 41 minutes of play because its nit yet half time, but this is the "final play" of that half?

And red player yc after 69 minutes, blue on 41 minutes. Red can return to play out severeal minutes of extra time but blue cant?

Plain stupid and really doesn't fit safety-ENJOYMENT-laws.

As for making stuff up to suit your own agenda... Sad.

Didds

 

[didds]

in the absurd unending scenario in post #88, I proposed an absurdly simple way out.
Of course if your Union says no, the referee must continue, then fine. In the end some outside authority, like medical doctors, or your own government is going to step in and dictate that player safety come first.

Until that day id suggest you do what the laws and plain common sense dictate.

Didds

 

[L'irlandais]

That's incorrect, they can over run. You can't stop the game if the ball is still live. What you can't do is play extra time such as a an extra 10 minutes each way in the event of a draw.

my bad, that is the meaning of the French variation too.

 

[4eyesbetter]

Why does everyone automatically assume that time at the end of the half counts for this purpose? Is it because TV clocks (and your count-up stopwatch) continue counting past 40:00 and 80:00 at the end of a half? Is there a chance you might think differently if all the clocks you'd ever seen stopped at 40:00 and then started a separate timer so you knew how far past time the half had gone?

Seriously. If you look at the official stats for Wasps-Toulon, you'll notice that the last try is credited as being at 80; but the conversion is not at 81, it's at 80+1, which implies that time after time should actually be treated differently. I'd love to know what y'all's Powers That Be think should happen, and I'm a little surprised after 12 pages that nobody who can do so easily appears to have asked.

 

[OB..]

We almost had a test case yesterday - Dan Cole was yellow carded in the 71st minute. For some reason England were keen to end the game asap after 80 minutes. :biggrin:

 

[crossref]

We almost had a test case yesterday - Dan Cole was yellow carded in the 71st minute. For some reason England were keen to end the game asap after 80 minutes. :biggrin:

There was also a knock into the in-goal, wasn't there.. (but not INSIDE)

Also, I was at Quins, and I am pretty sure there was a quickly taken lineout... it certainly took me by surprise, I need to check the video and see what actually happened.

 

[FlipFlop]

There is a useful clarification in Law:
[LAWS]Clarification 2 2007


Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
Ruling2-2007
Union / HP Ref ManagerIRFU
Law Reference3
Date12 March 2007
Request
1. A penalty kick is awarded to White team. Before the kick is taken, can White team make a substitution? (If so, we assume that the substitute can take the penalty kick.)


2. A penalty kick is awarded to White team. Before the kick is taken can a previously sin-binned White player return; given that the 10 minutes have fully elapsed? (If so, we assume that the returning player may take the penalty kick.)

Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
A substitution can only be made when the ball is dead. A referee must not let a player rejoin the match until the ball is dead. The ball is dead when the ball is out of play. This happens when the ball has gone outside the playing area and remained there, or when the referee has blown the whistle to indicate a stoppage in play, or when a conversion kick has been taken.


In both cases outlined above, the ball is dead, and therefore the answer to each question is in the affirmative.[/LAWS]

At a PK, the ball is dead, the player may return. So if 80 min has gone, but there is a PK, then the player may return.