Change in Scrum Engagement?

TigerCraig


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Agree with a lot of this. I don't see why penalties and possibly 3 points are often given against a player who is not deliberately offending, but who just isn't good enough or who loses his grip or footing. As they say we don't penalise players for being too slow - or missing tackles or dropping the ball. As in RL scrum penalties should not have a shot at goal option unless the offence is deemed to be deliberate dangerous play.
 

Robert Burns

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I asked Brian Moore what he thought of this, he said he'll be commenting in his telegraph column on Thursday.
 

Dickie E


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The quartet say that the present command of "crouch, touch, pause, engage" should be replaced by "stand, touch, engage, push". They argue that the requirement to crouch "increases the disposition towards charging" and that the pause "creates a sense of tension of the kind that would apply to a 100-yard sprinter on the starting blocks".

These instructions have created 'hits' that were never part of the scrummage concept and the report warns that spine or neck injuries, coupled with arthritis, will be the long-term consequence.


I agree wholeheartedly with this. The 'engage' call was designed to ensure both teams engaged at the same time but has become like a starter's pistol.

Have a look at old games on TV. The hit was never like it is now.
 

Robert Burns

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When you look at old games the scrum happens so quickly that the game hardly stops, though it looks like very little of a contest either.
 

crossref


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The quartet say that the present command of "crouch, touch, pause, engage" should be replaced by "stand, touch, engage, push". They argue that the requirement to crouch "increases the disposition towards charging" and that the pause "creates a sense of tension of the kind that would apply to a 100-yard sprinter on the starting blocks".



I agree with this, but I would have
- stand
- touch
- engage
- ball in

- As the signal for pushing is the ball comes in.
- if the referee controls when the ball comes in, there's no point having a hit an and early shove .. do that and the ball ain't ever coming in.
 

TheBFG


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But if the referee calls the ball in the "skill" of the hooker & SH co-ordinating the strike is gone.
 

OB..


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The 'engage' call was designed to ensure both teams engaged at the same time but has become like a starter's pistol.
:confused: The starter's pistol is also intended to ensure everybody starts at the same time.

I have long advocated that the ball should not be thrown in until the referee is satisfied that the scrum is stationary and parallel, but I do not advocate the referee calling the timing. He should indicate to the scrum half that he can throw in the ball and then leave it to the players.
 

Simon Thomas


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Yes become a member of the IRB Laws advisory sub-committee and get a copy from former All Black Graham Mourie, who is the Chairman of that committee !
 

crossref


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But if the referee calls the ball in the "skill" of the hooker & SH co-ordinating the strike is gone.
agree -- I had envisaged 'ball-in' to mean ... 'put it in when you are ready' rather than a command. More like when you give a PK ... it doesn't mean you have to take the PK right now... but you can.
 

Simon Thomas


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I asked Brian Moore what he thought of this, he said he'll be commenting in his telegraph column on Thursday.

Are you taking him out dwarf-throwing ?

Look forward to what BCM has to say, as he will remember the transition from stand, fold in scrums to the modern controlled 'hit'.

And Robbie it was a major contest with strong men using all sorts of techniques to get an ascendancy. I can remember some real battles with west country oppo when the Claxton brothers would comment about it afterwards.
 

crossref


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You mean like "engage" is not a command.:biggrin::pepper:

:) :)

yes, but the difference is that with the current CPTE both sides perceive that it is in their best interests to engage quick and hard ... so they do

if the call was crouch/touch/engage/ball-in I think teams would perceive that it was in their best interests NOT necessarily to put the ball in immediately, but rather to put it in at own pace, so they would
 

Bury_Dave


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Scrum reforms

Four men, good and true, have submitted a report on how the scrum laws should be changed to get rid of the apparent arbitaryness of how teams are penalised.

It makes for good reading although I see no mention of looser shirts :chin: .........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...or-scrummaging-law-changes.html#disqus_thread

The Telegraph appears to be having a good day regarding rugby reporting :clap:

Dave
 

Simon Thomas


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Re: Scrum reforms

Bury_Dave - I have merged your new thread into this earlier one in the Scrum section.
 

rubyref


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It makes for good reading although I see no mention of looser shirts :chin: .........

It's there if you look for it :)

They specifically mention cian healey having problems with his oppo's tight shirt.
 
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