Change to Regulation pertaining to wearing Goggles.

[Dixie]

Dixie

where are you looking? I'm looking at
http://www.rfu.com/TheGame/~/media/Files/2010/TheGame/Regulations/RFU Regulation 15.ashx

and this still says U7 to U18

what is actually says on the RFU website
...
- under regulations - OK up to u18 http://www.rfu.com/TheGame/~/media/Files/2010/TheGame/Regulations/RFU Regulation 15.ashx

No - this is important. I suspect that both of you are relying on cookies from when you first looked up Regulation 15. If you go to www.rfu.com/regulations and look up reg 15, or if you replace 2010 in your links with 2011, you'll find the following:

15.7.5 Players playing age grades U7 to U8 only may wear specially designed and
manufactured “goggles” provided the child’s optician certifies that:
(a) They only allow the player to have properly corrected vision and do not
substantially restrict any normal field of vision.
(b) They do not constitute a physical danger to the wearer or other players

 

[Dixie]

IRB memo? I just don't beleive it.

Tell you what - if there really is a recent IRB memo defining a new global policy on goggles for players from U7 to u18, I'll eat my leggings.

LOL, PMSL and :biggrin:. Why do you suppose the iRB website doesn't have a Search feature? Is obfuscation the name of the game in Dublin? Or did they just forget to put in the one feature common to almost all websites?

 

[OB..]

LOL, PMSL and :biggrin:. Why do you suppose the iRB website doesn't have a Search feature? Is obfuscation the name of the game in Dublin? Or did they just forget to put in the one feature common to almost all websites?

Neither Google nor Bing find any references to goggles on the IRB site.

 

[davidgh]

Any clarification on the precise current situation most welcome

 

[MiniRef]

<Post removed by miniref>

 

[Jolly Roger]

This was raised at an U9s match in Scotland this weekend. I have been coaching two players who wear glasses for the past couple of years. One wears sports goggles and the other wears glasses in training. As a referee I questioned this when I started coaching minis and was told that they were fine. The issue had not been raised by opposition clubs before and I have encountered other teams with kids wearing these sports goggles. The opposition coach this weekend objected and by chance the SRU Head of Community Rugby was in attendance. He was quite clear on the SRU policy that goggles and glasses are not permitted to be worn during contact rugby at any age group -they are therefore permitted at U7 (TAG) but not during contact training or matches above that.

I shall publish the formal response from SRU when I receive it..

 

[Jolly Roger]

Just received a response from SRU as follows:

The laws of the game are produced by the IRB and as such I would guide you to the IRB website specifically Law 4 (http://www.irblaws.com/EN/downloads/ ) and Regulation 12 (http://www.irb.com/mm/document/lawsregs/regulations/04/23/24/42324_pdf.pdf) these are the laws and regulations which applies in this case with the issue being that the rigidity in the current goggles available make them illegal and there are no goggles currently on the market that have been IRB approved. We have recently sought clarification on this from the IRB as we were aware of the RFU website advice. The clarification was as above ie that no goggles can be worn because they do not meet the parameters as specified in Law 4 regulation 12. There has now been a number of these requests this season and I will communicate with all clubs and schools to remind them of this fact.


In other words as Law 4 Defines Players' Clothing as:

Player's clothing is anything the players wear. A player wears a jersey, shorts and underwear, socks and boots.
Detailed information relating to permitted specifications for clothing and studs may be found in IRB Specifications (Regulation 12).

Goggles or glasses are not covered under Additional Items of Clothing, they are not specifically pemitted under Regulation 12, and Law 4.4.(g) states: A player must not wear any other item which does not conform with the IRB Specifications for such clothing (Regulation 12). They are therefore not permitted.

Seems clear cut to me. Parents of certain short-sighted kids will not be happy when they are banned from wearing goggles tat training next weekend.

 

[MiniRef]

Reply from RFU yesterday:

We are convening a meeting to discuss the issues you have raised below. Please sit tight, we will report back as soon as we have plotted the way forward.

This was in response to my note which included:
Please can I ask that this matter is investigated urgently and that the RFU come up with a sensible way forward? At the very least, the U7-U12 groups should be allowed to continue in their use of goggles (subject to the usual safety). After all, if they were safe last season, then surely they must still be safe now?

Until we have a clear way forward, where the website reflects what you’ve said and the RFU has communicated this, what do I say to this U9 player? Sorry, mate, but the RFU has, mid-season, changed its rules? Go and play soccer instead? (No doubt this will lead to compensation claims against the RFU too).

 

[crossref]

No - this is important. I suspect that both of you are relying on cookies from when you first looked up Regulation 15. If you go to www.rfu.com/regulations and look up reg 15, or if you replace 2010 in your links with 2011, you'll find the following:

15.7.5 Players playing age grades U7 to U8 only may wear specially designed and
manufactured “goggles” provided the child’s optician certifies that:
(a) They only allow the player to have properly corrected vision and do not
substantially restrict any normal field of vision.
(b) They do not constitute a physical danger to the wearer or other players

Dixie - - yes I am seeing the same thing now

== RFU Regulation 15 - says goggles can be warn at U7 and U8

However

== RFU Website under 'player health' goggles are OK up to U12 http://www.rfu.com/TakingPart/PlayerHealth/FAQs.aspx
== RFU Website under 'first aid', OK up to U12 http://www.rfu.com/ManagingRugby/Fir...0glasses on?

So, surprise surprise, it's a mess.

 

[Jolly Roger]

Further response from SRU to a separate enquiry from the RDM:

Following a recent similar request we raised the subject with the IRB's Technical Department. The IRB have confirmed that sports goggles are NOT permitted in rugby football.

 

[crossref]

Further response from SRU to a separate enquiry from the RDM:

Following a recent similar request we raised the subject with the IRB's Technical Department. The IRB have confirmed that sports goggles are NOT permitted in rugby football.

Except they are in England, from U7 to U8, as confirmed by the RFU in last few weeks.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Except they are in England, from U7 to U8, as confirmed by the RFU in last few weeks.

Any home union (e.g. RFU SRU WRU NZRFU etc) has delegated powers and dispensation by IRB to make local law and rules/regs variations (subject to IRB approval).

For example in RFUland we have the Continuum which is totally English based and different to the other UK unions variants.
Also at U13, U14 and U15 RFU does not allow supported line-out lifts - another local Emglish law variant.

So the goog;les issue may well be a RFU variant on Regs.

 

[crossref]

So the goog;les issue may well be a RFU variant on Regs.

yes that seems to be correct...

1. Can I play rugby with glasses on?

Players aged 13 and upwards cannot play rugby, or any variation of it, wearing glasses as this is a danger to the player and to others on the field.

In order to remove this potential barrier to participation, the RFU has given the following dispensation for children in the Continuum (U7 to U12) age grades only:

Players may wear specially designed and manufactured 'goggles' on the understanding that the child's optician certifies that:

‘They allow the player to have properly corrected vision and do not substantially restrict any normal field of vision. They do not constitute a physical danger to the wearer or other players.’

Damaged goggles may present a greater risk of injury to the wearer or any other player and therefore this must also be taken into account.

It is hoped that by the time the children wearing such goggles reach the U13 playing age, they might be suitable for the wearing of contact lenses and so continue in their chosen sport.

http://www.rfu.com/TakingPart/PlayerHealth/FAQs.aspx

(although of course other parts of the RFU website now say U8!)

 

[spikeno10]

Ah the joy of communication.......
The fundamental issue with this remains what has changed from 2010 to 2011.
Last year the goggles were expressly permitted in the continuum and supported by the health sections and the like on the RFU site and obviously due to the age of some of these players consideration of inclusion and all of those good things seemed to have been taken into account.
So in 2011 the continuum is put down (RIP) and the new regulation section launched. The regulation relating to goggles now reads up to U18. This of course is wrong and causes much scratching of heads. No one has issued a message on this extension and it sort of feels not right.
Simple solution of course the words from the old continuum are right but no lots of debate and discussion about Health & Safety and Welfare and we have U7 & U8 only. 6 weeks into the season, not in June to let the parents / coaches / clubs etc plan for this but now.
The Health & Safety and Welfare arguments can not stand as these items have been passed as ok previously, the items haven't changed. This is just a sad example of the PC lot sticking their oar in again.
Oh and if it is right and someone at HQ has left those other pages on the website unchanged then there is a fundamental lack of control there too. (oh,,,,,,,,,,,,).
Can some one please apply some common sense to this which I wander off for a swift game of conkers.......

 

[OB..]

I wander off for a swift game of conkers.......

Wearing your mandatory goggles, of course, just like we didn't when I was at primary school.

 

[crossref]

Ah the joy of communication.......
The fundamental issue with this remains what has changed from 2010 to 2011.
Last year the goggles were expressly permitted in the continuum and supported by the health sections and the like on the RFU site and obviously due to the age of some of these players consideration of inclusion and all of those good things seemed to have been taken into account.
So in 2011 the continuum is put down (RIP) and the new regulation section launched. The regulation relating to goggles now reads up to U18. This of course is wrong and causes much scratching of heads. No one has issued a message on this extension and it sort of feels not right.
Simple solution of course the words from the old continuum are right but no lots of debate and discussion about Health & Safety and Welfare and we have U7 & U8 only. 6 weeks into the season, not in June to let the parents / coaches / clubs etc plan for this but now.
The Health & Safety and Welfare arguments can not stand as these items have been passed as ok previously, the items haven't changed. This is just a sad example of the PC lot sticking their oar in again.
Oh and if it is right and someone at HQ has left those other pages on the website unchanged then there is a fundamental lack of control there too. (oh,,,,,,,,,,,,).
Can some one please apply some common sense to this which I wander off for a swift game of conkers.......

common sense at club level, this sunday, in England --
U7 and U8 - OK
U9 upwards - not OK
if you have any U9 to U12 players, get on phone to RFU to create/join the clamour about it.

If I was refereeing midi this season, I'd print out the regulation and have it in my bag just in case it comes up.

 

[MiniRef]

and if I were the parent of an U16 and I'd just spent £££££ on safety sports goggles then I'll have a printed copy of the same regulation, telling me that U7 - U18 can wear goggles.
Both have the same date!

 

[spikeno10]

common sense at club level, this sunday, in England --
U7 and U8 - OK
U9 upwards - not OK
if you have any U9 to U12 players, get on phone to RFU to create/join the clamour about it.

If I was refereeing midi this season, I'd print out the regulation and have it in my bag just in case it comes up.

I doubt the RFU are there on a Sunday morning so no support there....
Equally if you do call them it is very likely you will get two different views from two different people you speak to.
It's clear from the website that it is far from clear what the actual situation really is.
By applying one of these regulations you are clearly breaking the other one and as they are dated the same do you want to bet which one is right?
But any the question has to be what is the change in risk from last season to this season for the age group U9 to U12 which has resulted in this change in stance or is it as the cynic in me might suggest what is the increase in insurance premium costs being levelled at the RFU?

 

[crossref]

and if I were the parent of an U16 and I'd just spent £££££ on safety sports goggles then I'll have a printed copy of the same regulation, telling me that U7 - U18 can wear goggles.
Both have the same date!

and right there and then on the pitch then: if I am referee and you are the touchline parent ... I win!

afterwards in the bar I guess we can get out our iphones and check the regulatios on the RFU website and find which version is currently live on that day (which @ yesterday was U8...)

 

[Simon Thomas]

I doubt the RFU are there on a Sunday morning so no support there....

from what I hear here are few people at Twickenham these days any day of the week, as everyone (employees) are keeping their heads down with the management battle about to break out in public.