Of course, but
... Which direction does C&O go.
.. is it sensible that the outcome is partly dependent on the question?
I understand that, but we could change that protocol so that the TMO simply determines whether it was a forward pass or not (according to an agreed definition)Kind of, yes, the ref will ask the question based on what he/she believed occurred (like the rest of us), and is basically asking 'prove me wrong' and if this can't obviously be done, move on.
We could, but I'm not in favour, my view is less TMO not more, maybe have a formal background review whilst the conversions being taken (for every try) and empower the TMO to overrule then, but as per the Aussie trials, a quicker game for me.I understand that, but we could change that protocol so that the TMO simply determines whether it was a forward pass or not (according to an agreed definition)
Right now, this raises a question over who makes the decision. Current guidance is that the ref has the final decision. On the one hand, I understand the desire to have the person holding the whistle make the final decision, however, at elite level the TMO is also an elite level ref, so I don't see why he/she could not be given the authority to make the decision considering they typically have more time to review the replays (if play continues) and is sitting close to a high definition screen rather than a matrix screen 20m away.I understand that, but we could change that protocol so that the TMO simply determines whether it was a forward pass or not (according to an agreed definition)
exactly so, a mess.So no clear and obvious reason to overrule, crack on
Is that ideal?
that's NOT the current system though !Or alternatively, it comes down to the person in the middle's position, viewpoint, and choice of action - like most of our decisions, as you say, there are multiple potential outcomes, so I don't get too hung up on it, it's sport, fine margins sometimes, crack on
the system is full of problems ... but nothing can be done to improve it?The system we have is not infalliable and whilst improvements should always be sought I dont see how your suggestion would produce better results. Effective communication should produce the correct decision whichever question is asked. We all want the correct decisions but what is clear is that more TMO involvement does not nessesarily lead to less arguement. What is also clear is that crowds and tv audiences dislike stopping the game for minutes at a time, several times a game to check a decison and seem equally displeased at going back to check something in the early stages of a try several phases before the ball is touched down.
What is achingly apparent is how much slower the professional game is than the levels below. I'm all in favour of what appears to be positive action by referees to take an early decision to keep the game moving and accept they will occasionally get marginal decisions wrong.
A couple of thoughts.exactly so, a mess.
To spell it out, in the close ones, where the TMO thinks it was forward (as in the incident discussed)
- if the ref, who saw it once, in real time, says 'not forward' the TMO will go along with it, and not forward.
- if the ref, who saw it once in real time, says 'possible forward pass, can you check' , then the TMO rules it forward.
- if the ref was unsighted and never even saw it, the TMO will 'check check' 'I'm going to show you a possible forward pass' - and the outcome will depend upon a conversation based on the video evidence alone .
1 - the outcome depends on who was asking, and what they asked.
2 - in some cases the referee's one-time live action decision will over-rule the TMO's view based on close study of the video
Is that ideal?
I understand how we got to (2), but have we arrived in the right place?A couple of thoughts.
1. You seem to imply that 1 and 2 are necessarily bad things
2.n I'm OK with that. We can't get a definitive answer here, so it's fair to say that the TMO has an opinion on the pass and not a clear statement of fact. In which case, he or she should defer to the ref in the middle