Great game spoiled by last 2 minutes

[Browner]

Ian, I notice you've removed the photographs of the coaches that were posted by me. These photo's were copied from the Away club's own website [which has unrestricted public access] , & unless i'm mistaken this means that they have consented to their photo's being seen / accessible by anyone over the worldwide web ?.......... Have you removed them under some copyright law that i'm not aware of, or have you removed them because my betting joke offends someone ? I don't believe any of my comments were offensive in any way ?? I correctly identified the poster of the match report [which was fact not opinion] so i'm struggling to see why the photo's are considered to need removing ?

 

[Dixie]

I was no party to Ian's moderation, but I agree with it. We were beginning to very personal with views about the people who posted and who caused our colleague trouble - that is dangerous, and IMO Ian nipped a potential problem in the bud.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Browner

There are two issues

1. did you provide a link to the photograohs in situ (on the club web site with detailed url link) and in context or to them as graphics (with no context) or copy / saved or pasted - if the latter two you could be in breach of copyright

2. personal views were being expressed that could either bring the RRF into disrepute or lay someone open to at minimum defamation of character or possible 5.12 RFU action etc

 

[upnunder]

The red card was upheld at the hearing.
The player pleaded not guilty, but after hearing his case, the panel agreed with my decision.
In the end they didn't need me, but I spoke to the panel chairman before the hearing as I would have not been able to call into the hearing as I was on a train at the time.

 

[Browner]

From the Original Post description, is sounded like the Coach had more of an 'abuse of official' case to answer than the player. Has this been progressed ?

 

[Browner]

Browner

There are two issues

1. did you provide a link to the photograohs in situ (on the club web site with detailed url link) and in context or to them as graphics (with no context) or copy / saved or pasted - if the latter two you could be in breach of copyright

2. personal views were being expressed that could either bring the RRF into disrepute or lay someone open to at minimum defamation of character or possible 5.12 RFU action etc

Hmnnnn .... please PM a copy of my post, so I can review it's content . . . . I don't believe I ever overstep genuine lines !

 

[OB..]

I don't believe I ever overstep genuine lines !

Isn't that known as the Richie McCaw defence?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Ian, I notice you've removed the photographs of the XXXXXXX that were posted by me. These photo's were copied from the Away club's own website [which has unrestricted public access] , & unless i'm mistaken this means that they have consented to their photo's being seen / accessible by anyone over the worldwide web ?.......... Have you removed them under some copyright law that i'm not aware of, or have you removed them because my betting joke offends someone ? I don't believe any of my comments were offensive in any way ?? I correctly identified the poster of the match report [which was fact not opinion] so i'm struggling to see why the photo's are considered to need removing ?

Its about context. The photos and posts (yours weren't the only ones) were removed in response to complaints from members who felt that the thread was getting into risky areas, where we were responding to articles and reports, with names and photographs and accusations of misconduct. This could be construed as unprofessional on our behalf, given that the judicial process had not yet been resolved.

Earlier, I had moved this thread to the "referee only" section as I was becoming concerned at the direction it was taking, however, as the complainants pointed out, nothing is really ever private on the internet. We don't know if some of our referee members are connected in any way with the club, the player or the coach, and if the wrong people saw some of the stuff I deleted, it could have backfired on Upnunder as well as us.

When I deleted the posts I did a "soft-delete" that allows other members of staff to see what I have deleted. I also posted in the Staff Forum so that other Staff Members could see what I had done and could overrule me if they felt my decision was over the top. None so far have availed themselves of the opportunity. One of the posts I deleted was in fact that of a Staff Member, but he agrees that he probably shouldn't have posted it.

Rugbyrefs.com is not a judicial or "name and shame" forum.

 

[Browner]

Its about context. The photos and posts (yours weren't the only ones) were removed in response to complaints from members who felt that the thread was getting into risky areas, where we were responding to articles and reports, with names and photographs and accusations of misconduct. This could be construed as unprofessional on our behalf, given that the judicial process had not yet been resolved.

Earlier, I had moved this thread to the "referee only" section as I was becoming concerned at the direction it was taking, however, as the complainants pointed out, nothing is really ever private on the internet. We don't know if some of our referee members are connected in any way with the club, the player or the coach, and if the wrong people saw some of the stuff I deleted, it could have backfired on Upnunder as well as us.

When I deleted the posts I did a "soft-delete" that allows other members of staff to see what I have deleted. I also posted in the Staff Forum so that other Staff Members could see what I had done and could overrule me if they felt my decision was over the top. None so far have availed themselves of the opportunity. One of the posts I deleted was in fact that of a Staff Member, but he agrees that he probably shouldn't have posted it.

Rugbyrefs.com is not a judicial or "name and shame" forum.

All that is accepted, & I respect your right to 'govern', however I still maintain that my posting wasn't malicious in context or opinion. Strangely I've seen many posters criticise senior IRB personnel, yet these musings never seem to fall foul of the moderators knife. TBH I can't remember the exact wordings, but i'd welcome the chance to review.........ps, now the RC decision has been upheld then we can presumably post player X found guilty of referee Abuse etc..........? Freedom of speech etc?

 

[Ian_Cook]

All that is accepted, & I respect your right to 'govern', however I still maintain that my posting wasn't malicious in context or opinion. Strangely I've seen many posters criticise senior IRB personnel, yet these musings never seem to fall foul of the moderators knife. TBH I can't remember the exact wordings, but i'd welcome the chance to review.........ps, now the RC decision has been upheld then we can presumably post player X found guilty of referee Abuse etc..........? Freedom of speech etc?

Browner, there was nothing in your post that was "intrinsically" offensive, it was just not appropriate to this forum in the context of what the thread was about. Upnunder started the thread to relate his handling of a tricky situation, not because he was out to start a witchhunt.

You could probably have posted that in Planet Rugby with few, if any problems, but not here.

Unless I receive direction to the contrary from Robbie or the other member of the staff, I consider the matter now closed.

 

[Browner]

Browner, there was nothing in your post that was "intrinsically" offensive, it was just not appropriate to this forum in the context of what the thread was about. .

Just PM me it please

 

[Simon Thomas]

The red card was upheld at the hearing.
The player pleaded not guilty, but after hearing his case, the panel agreed with my decision.
In the end they didn't need me, but I spoke to the panel chairman before the hearing as I would have not been able to call into the hearing as I was on a train at the time.

We normally ask the Referee to appear (or be on a Conference call) for all not-guilty pleas.

 

[The Fat]

Just PM me it please

Hi Browner,
I was one of the members who requested that several posts be removed.
Rather than continue to discuss in this thread, I will send you a PM as soon as I get a few minutes some time today to discuss in private.
Cheers

 

[Ian_Cook]

The red card was upheld at the hearing.
The player pleaded not guilty, but after hearing his case, the panel agreed with my decision.
In the end they didn't need me, but I spoke to the panel chairman before the hearing as I would have not been able to call into the hearing as I was on a train at the time.

How many weeks did he get?

 

[Browner]

Ian has kindly sent me a copy of my post, which i’ve thanked him for, & then reviewed.
I can’t recall ever having had a forum post removed previously, so I was keen to see what posting crime I’d committed ?????????????

content removed

 

[Ian_Cook]

Ian has kindly sent me a copy of my post, which i’ve thanked him for, & then reviewed.<snip></snip>

I can’t recall ever having had a forum post removed previously, so I was keen to see what posting crime I’d committed ?????????????

Don't take it personally!!

You've had it explained to you several times that there was nothing wrong with your post, it is simply the context in which it appeared, and that other posts were also deleted.

NOW GIVE IT UP!!!

Any more posts on this will deleted, permanently!

 

[upnunder]

I believe he was given a 1 week ban. The club posted it on their twitter feed.

I have been asked to fill out a referee abuse form to deal with the coaches and supporters conduct, which I will do later

 

[beckett50]

Not the first bit of controversy from this club this season.
I had the pleasure of reffing them in the opening game of the season - that was also a Cup match.
I awarded a Drop Goal to the home team bang on half-time that was marginal but - being on the spot and following the kick - I adjudged it just inside the post. Reading the match report similar words are used about that decision.
At the time the coach came onto the pitch and questioned my decision and - as I was at the time walking to the changing room with my ARs - just said "Yes, the kick was good" and kept walking.
Have them next week, so should be interesting

 

[Browner]

At the time the coach came onto the pitch and questioned my decision

Coach . . . Did I signal my decision?, do you understand the signal? If so, are you saying that I decided to award the score when I did not believe it to be valid ...... please be very careful before answering .... because any hint of a 'yes' will be taken by me as you calling me a cheat and you will then be RC'd and reported to the Disciplinary committee. So coach, given that I didn't quite understand your approach to me, are you still questioning my integrity of decision making? ......... no!? ref - thank you coach , we both now understand each other. :knuppel2:

 

[upnunder]

I found out today they the coach is a former level 5 referee