Is the Bunker working?

BikingBud


Referees in England
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
773
Post Likes
270
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
I think there is a lot to be said for following the same process (ie bunker) every time.
Ie consistency.
Consistently wrong?

Consistently inaccurately applied?

Consistently poorly communicated?

Consistently inconsistent?
 

BikingBud


Referees in England
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
773
Post Likes
270
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
But they are not red card decisions!

They are referrals for "suspected" foul play and despite the C+O for most, they have been assessed as not meeting the threshold.

Ducks are lining up again. 🦆🦆🦆🦆
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,824
Post Likes
3,161
No, the YC already issued , so ref has decided there is foul play.
But expect every RC to be through the bunker process
(and good thing IMO to do them all the same process)

Straight RC will only be issued for old fashioned deliberate acts of foul play. (punches etc) and those are vanishingly rare in pro rugby.
 
Last edited:

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,824
Post Likes
3,161
so back to the general question -- is the bunker working?

I am realising that one of the most important differences made by the bunker is that we no longer know exactly who gave the RC. The FPRO is anonymous.

So we no longer have headlines like 'referee Joe Bloggs showed a RC' referee Joe Bloggs ajudged that the offence merited a RC' Referee Joe Bloggs had no alternative but to show a RC'....
....and we no longer have tweets about that idiot Joe Bloggs and his shocking RC decision etc etc

The bunker has completely depersonalised it, and taken loads of heat off the refs.

I am belatedly realising that - in fact -this might be the main purpose of having the bunker and all the other reasons given by WR are just fluff
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,164
Post Likes
1,846
I suppose for _me_, the bunker IS workiing. It reduces wasted/dead time as multiple angles get pontificated over by 3 on field personnel plus a TMO. CR's point above is deffo a step forward.
the only improvement they could/should make is better provision of reasoning, but then again as they general;ly all seem to make it up as they go along with little consistency that's somewhat redundant. (YMMV over that alst point but see the other current thread that is running...0
 

BikingBud


Referees in England
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
773
Post Likes
270
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
Scotland v Tonga another nailed on 🟥 not given.

I can fully appreciate Townsend's frustration:
"I think we're trying to look at ways to not give red cards rather than referee what is a legal tackle and what should be a red card."
"That's two tackles now. Both upright and both hit the head of our players. One had no sanction, not even a penalty, the second one just a yellow card. I don't think that's good enough."
 

BikingBud


Referees in England
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
773
Post Likes
270
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
Outcome Bias?

The independent Disciplinary Committee was chaired by Adam Casselden SC (Australia), joined by former international referees Donal Courtney (Ireland) and Juan Pablo Spirandelli (Argentina).

The player accepted that foul play had occurred and that the offence warranted a red card.

Having considered all the available evidence, the submissions by the player and his representative, the independent Committee categorised the act of foul play as being at the top end of the scale of seriousness of offending, having regard to the degree of recklessness involved in the offending, the vulnerability of the victim player and the significant injury to him. Applying Appendix 1 to Regulation 17, the independent Committee determined that the applicable entry point is 12 matches.

Having considered the mitigating factors, including admission of foul play and correctness of the red card at the first opportunity, his disciplinary record and apology to the player, the independent Committee reduced the sanction by the maximum mitigation of 50 per cent.

Also via the link, a video explaining the World Rugby disciplinary process and how it is applied but saying what you do doesn't make it so.

Screenshot 2023-09-26 at 19.51.24.png

Given the number of high shots and head clashes that the system has not dealt with, without even considering those they have reviewed and not sanctioned, it is very clear the deterrent is weak and it certainly doesn't seem to be working😶

Screenshot 2023-09-26 at 19.54.59.png
🙈🙉🙊
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,824
Post Likes
3,161
Gosh that does seem very harsh.
Did Namibia not bring along a very expensive KC ?
 
Last edited:

SimonSmith


Referees in Australia
Staff member
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,408
Post Likes
1,525
I'm not saying I have strong opinions about Cassenden, but he's the guy who refused to give the fella who punched me a life sentence. He's also the one who led the Farrell disciplinary.

Am I saying that he can't be trusted to get it right? You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment
 

Stu10


Referees in England
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
883
Post Likes
478
Current Referee grade:
Level 15 - 11
Entry point of 12 matches... I don't recall any 1st tier nations recently faced with a 12 match ban for a high tackle, but I could be wrong.
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,824
Post Likes
3,161
The process seems random just watched three bunkers in Namibia Uruguay I would defy anyone to predict all three correctly
 

Jz558


Referees in England
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
396
Post Likes
138
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
I like the honest points he makes and I think his main thrust will resonate with many. I am accountable for the decisions I make but may struggle to explain the ones I didn't make. I get the sense that those referees that have questioned the bunker feel that it undermines their authority without actually improving decision making or adding clarity to the game. There are as many inconsistencies and frustrations with decisions reached in interpreting tv footage as there are in real time.
 
Top