[LAWS]7.3 [FONT=fs_blakeregular]Advantage must not be applied and the referee must blow the whistle immediately when:[/FONT]
- [...]
- f. The ball is made dead.[/LAWS]
Serious note as it is important : that Law means something else : it means you can't carry on playing advantage when the ball goes dead
For example blue 11 knocks on, and then he kicks the ball into touch -- you can't carry on playing advantage to let RED take a QTI.. even if it would be a really good QTI)...
If you are playing advantage and then the ball goes dead, then as the Law says : you must blow your whistle. Then EITHER declare "no advantage, back to the offence" or "Adv over" continue with the lineout (or whatever)
(for instance blue knock on, red gain possession and kick the ball into touch. Peep "Adv over, lineout" or in some circumstances "no advatage, back for the scrum" )
As has been mentioned in previous threads on this topic, the advantage (territorial) would be gained before the ball goes into touch.
Got lost in the rewrite which didnt change anything
I think that either 22DO or the 5m defending scrum are 'sellable' on the day, but I do think that the best answer here is the 22DO.
Practically speaking Phil's advice is sound .. as the assessor and the players will expect a scrum . For the scenario in the OP out on the field I also recommend a scrum.
But Phil your reasoning is all over the place and not based on Law (not a single Law reference)
The first challenge you have to get past is Law 12
[LAWS]12.11 Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre drop-out.
[/LAWS]
Flish 7.3.f means something else (see post 23)
But really any discussion of how tactical and territorial advantage can be gained is pretty esoteric when faced with the simple clarity of 12.11 ..
[LAWS]
12.11 Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre drop-out.[/LAWS]
. A 22DO isn't the result of a knock on, it's the ( normal and accepted ) result of taking or sending the ball into the opponents in goal, and the ball going dead.
CR, the problem with 12.11 as you read it is that (imo) the ball is not played into in-goal where it is knocked on. I read 12.11 as applying to a legal play of the ball into the in-goal only.
Pinky, tbh i would accept that argument, which is why this discussion normally focuses on the scenario of taking the ball legally into the in goal (carry or kick) and .. then knocking it on inside the in goal , and it goes dead...
(The old Law Book used to distinguish between the two, with different Laws. But now there is no distinction made)
If you gave a 22 for a knock on into in goal I would mark it down as an error on an assessment.
It is a fallacy to think that forensic argument over the wording of various laws can answer all problems. It can't for the simple reason that the "Laws" are not written to the necessary legalistic standards.as much as I dislike it, law 12.11 seems to be the only law that covers the OP.
Now, a knock on whilst in-goal might be a different fish.
... unless the opponents actually play and gain an advantage. Making the ball dead is the antithesis of playing. The referee awarding a 22 DO is not anything gained by the players...