No tackling in Schools.....really?

[Ricardowensleydale]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35696238

 

[L'irlandais]

Medical study seems quite damming.

She said evidence collected over 12 years showed rugby players up to the age of 18 or 19 had a 28% chance of getting injured over a season of 15 matches.
"If you're thinking of a million children playing every year with this risk of injury you're looking at 300,000 extra injuries a year, including up to 100,000 concussions," she said.
She added that 90% of injuries resulted in more than seven days lost from school.

i suspect the Elite game is doing us no favours, in that the perception is that impacts are getting more and more dangerous in the (televised) game.

 

[ianh5979]

If this is introduced, and tackling is allowed still in club rugby, in my opinion it will lead to more injuries as someone will get tackled in a school game when they are not prepared for it when the tackler forgot this was only a touch game. When you are playing a game with tackles you always tend to be prepared to be hit, the injuries often occur when you are not expecting it

 

[crossref]

Medical study seems quite damming.

She said evidence collected over 12 years showed rugby players up to the age of 18 or 19 had a 28% chance of getting injured over a season of 15 matches.
"If you're thinking of a million children playing every year with this risk of injury you're looking at 300,000 extra injuries a year, including up to 100,000 concussions," she said.
She added that 90% of injuries resulted in more than seven days lost from school.

i suspect the Elite game is doing us no favours, in that the perception is that impacts are getting more and more dangerous in the (televised) game.

those numbers cannot be right - 18/19 year olds play 15 games in one season and 25% of them are injured seriously enough to miss more than seven days of school? That doesn't sound right to me. (although it's probably the headline writers rather than the study).

If it said 25% of them have an injury that needs a week off rugby, I'd believe that, but 25% of them with injuries serious enough to mean a week off school? No.

 

[Phil E]

I listened to the lead author of this report on the radio this morning.

They want to ban tackling in schools, but he was at pains to say that it was only in schools. They don't want to stop the same kids playing in clubs. This in my opinion makes a mockery of their findings. It's either safe for everyone, or no one.

He had nothing against the RFU and kept going on about schools forcing kids to play rugby when they don't want to. Well schools force kids to do a lot of things they don't want to (damn you school for making me play soccer and do cross country running....and lets not even talk about country dancing!!)

One of his arguments was that school PE teachers aren't qualified coaches many times, and a lot haven't done headcase training or even first aid. This was why he said they were concerned about schools and weren't talking about clubs.

Surely the answer then is not to ban school rugby, but to bring school into line with RFU club policies and ensure teachers of rugby are trained and qualified. This is already the case in the "good" traditional rugby schools. So his argument doesn't even apply to all schools.

As I listened to his talk it just fell apart as he constantly contradicted himself. Do people get injured yes. He said Rugby was the only sport where kids tackle each other and cause collisions. But what about soccer and heading balls? What about the schools that have kids wielding sticks at each other like hockey and lacrosse?

The only thing I would like the RFU to take from this report is to use it to drag the schools into line.

 

[DocY]

those numbers cannot be right - 18/19 year olds play 15 games in one season and 25% of them are injured seriously enough to miss more than seven days of school? That doesn't sound right to me. (although it's probably the headline writers rather than the study). If it said 25% of them have an injury that needs a week off rugby, I'd believe that, but 25% of them with injuries serious enough to mean a week off school? No.

On Radio 4 this morning she admitted that the statistics she had weren't very robust (and blamed the RFU for this).She also used the term "life-threatening injuries" followed by "fractures and ligament damage", so make of that what you will. She was also implying that rugby was bad because collisions are an inherent part of the game whilst providing no comparable statistics for other sports (or even daily activities).

But 25% of school children needing a week off school because of an injury? In over ten years of playing rugby in school (with full contact from the first match) I don't think I missed a single day because of a rugby injury (nor did I miss a day's work in 15 years after that), compared to a couple of weeks with a broken ankle from a bouncy castle and a week off following a basketball injury (broken coccys, couldn't sit down). Hardly ever played basketball - played rugby three times a week.

 

[crossref]

to come up with anything meaningful they need to compare the injury rates of rugby players against
- the injury rates of all 18 year olds (the baseline rate)
- the injury rates of sport-playing 18 year olds
- the injury rates of non-sport playing 18 year olds
- the injury rates from different sports.

If they want to recommend touch rugby they also need
- the injury rates from touch rugby playing 18 year olds.

 

[FatherFlipper]

Think the most alarming thing is Phil E doing country dancing at school!:biggrin:

Agree with the above posts - get schools to follow RFU guidelines, get coaches in who are qualified, rather than some well-meaning/sadistic PE Teacher (depends on your era I suppose) to teach them. Whilst I do have sympathy for genuine injuries and cases, I do feel there is a certain amount of mumsnet panicy thinking going on, which in turn dilutes the seriousness of the issue - shouting "BAN EVERYTHING" (I'm summarizing here) doesn't encourage debate.

Is there a link anywhere to the report itself?

 

[Phil E]

Think the most alarming thing is Phil E doing country dancing at school!:biggrin:

Different times!

 

[crossref]

are there really schools where the rugby coaches aren't qualified? If it's your job to coach sport, surely you'd take the appropriate course, isn't it part of the training you do at PGCE? We have sports oriented college near us, and I know the students there all take RFU coaching course, and indeed reffing courses, they earn credits in the their course for doing so. Sports education is popular. I think some people are thinking back to 1970s stereo types.

you'd think it would be the clubs, where the starting point coaches are helpful, volunteer Dads, that need to cajole and encourage (and find funds for) courses.

 

[Flish]

If we had 25% kids getting injuries that resulted in a week off at out club we'd have no kids come back, so the numbers are clearly worded for sensation / without smallprint. I suspect as alluded to above that this is a schools coaching issue, I coach U9 so first year of contact under the RFU new rules of play and no significant injuries to date (touch wood!).

Suspect also related that a lot of schools start with full on 15 aside rugby (in UK from September all schools adhere to the new rules of play) so the risk should be reduced through the transition through the age groups, and also we're seeing a lot of school staff on the RFU courses in preparation, so that has to be good too.

Gut reaction is the article as written is guff though

 

[crossref]

(in UK from September all schools adhere to the new rules of play)

is that right - for all age groups, for all schools ? If so that's a major, major step forward, as would mean same Laws played in schools and clubs. I didn't realise so much progress made!

 

[Flish]

is that right - for all age groups, for all schools ? If so that's a major, major step forward, as would mean same Laws played in schools and clubs. I didn't realise so much progress made!

Yup, or at least all members of IAP (Independent Prep Schools), which in our area certainly means *all* - not sure about state schools though, some details here - http://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Docu...ofPlayandPlayerProgressionPathway_Neutral.pdf

Also co-incides with the NROP changes at U13 and U14 which (personally) think were un-necessary, the 15 aside game won't start till U14 now I think. We're in Durham county so one of the pilot areas, so ahead of the curve a little.

 

[Flish]

Actually, re-reading that and other articles, suggests that IAPS were onboard at start of this season as phrases like "It will be mandatory for all schools to comply with these changes in 2016" suggest all schools

 

[Dixie]

are there really schools where the rugby coaches aren't qualified? If it's your job to coach sport, surely you'd take the appropriate course, isn't it part of the training you do at PGCE? We have sports oriented college near us, and I know the students there all take RFU coaching course, and indeed reffing courses, they earn credits in the their course for doing so. Sports education is popular. I think some people are thinking back to 1970s stereo types.

About 10 years ago, my son's comprehensive school asked me to add my input to their developing rugby program. It had around 25 players from Year 7 to Year 13, and none of the PE department had any rugby coaching experience or training (though they were committed to doing the basic RFU course).

 

[SimonSmith]

A couple of points:
First, like others, I am deeply suspicious of the stats. I don't remember anyone taking a week off school when I was there as the result of a rugby injury. Hell, I cracked my thumb socket (and broke my wrist the following year) on the Saturday and was back at school on Monday. I wonder if kids just stay off at the slightest scratch?

But a more fundamental point about freedom of choice. I was lucky, I guess. My mother grew up in the Borders, and played representative field hockey to a very high standard. She took an informed decision that I could, and should, play rugby. She would do the same again now. And that's her right as a parent; I'm not a fan of nanny-stating, or the state trying to unnecessarily act in loco parentis. Other things that are dangerous: riding a motorcycle; repeatedly heading a soccer ball; joining the military at 16.

If I remember correctly, the reason she gets so stressed about this is because her son got injured. That's a pity, but her desire to take away my choice as a parent is reprehensible.

 

[DocY]

If I remember correctly, the reason she gets so stressed about this is because her son got injured. That's a pity, but her desire to take away my choice as a parent is reprehensible.

Yes, broken cheek I think. This whole thing is a perfect example of white-hat bias!

 

[Phil E]

Bit more information in this article.

http://www.theguardian.com/educatio...erm=159596&subid=13667892&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

 

[Rich_NL]

Back in the early 90s rugby at my school was compulsory. A couple of teachers were very qualified (one had a couple of England caps), but some weren't. I sustained a significant back injury in the scrum from the decisions made by one of the unqualified teachers: 'it was boring' that everyone played the same position all the time, so for fun we'd all swap around, and I (a lock) was put in as hooker. Stop making a fuss, it's just a fun game... fortunately (!) I was only off games for the rest of the year with that.

Even at the time, it seemed weird that the front row had to have scrum experience, but any adult with a PGCE and a whistle could supervise the whole lot.

 

[didds]

Medical study seems quite damming.

She said evidence collected over 12 years showed rugby players up to the age of 18 or 19 had a 28% chance of getting injured over a season of 15 matches.
"If you're thinking of a million children playing every year with this risk of injury you're looking at 300,000 extra injuries a year, including up to 100,000 concussions," she said.
She added that 90% of injuries resulted in more than seven days lost from school.

i suspect the Elite game is doing us no favours, in that the perception is that impacts are getting more and more dangerous in the (televised) game.

were her stats across the game as a whole including mega-powered elite professionals, for school aged players including club players only, or school rugby?




didds