Player request at KO

[Dickie E]

no we wouldn't write that, more like :

"John adopted some unusual postions at the restarts and in doing so missed first offences at 1/26 (#7 red pulling back chasing player off the ball), 1/35 (#6 blue two yards ahead of kicker) & 2/23 (change of kick direction left him 40 yards away from the catch and subsequent tackle). Combined with his late arrival and static positioning at the breakdowns, and not being up with play to see the disputed red try grounding at 2/35 when the score was 21-18 to blue, he should address his fitness levels urgently. Matches at lower levels, and at slower pace are recommended to ensure John addresses these development issues."

Indeed John is a knucklehead although I fail to see how John's position contributed to any of his failings

 

[Dixie]

I always start about a pace behind so I'm never in front of it. Getting hit by the ball on kick off is very embarrassing!

I'm mostly with Dickie E on this one. We have a thud from the kick, so we don't need to see it; we have a line all the way across the pitch to use as comparison with the thud, so anywhere you can hear the thud and see the line is fine. The absolute requirement is not to get hit by the ball, or get in the way of the players. St Nigel of the Valleys can often be seen standing about 5m ahead of the kicker, about a metre or two to the side away from the forwards. From here he can hear the thud; he can see the line; and he's not in the way of a kick in the opposite direction, which will pass behind him. He's 5m quicker to the breakdown and can do everything needed at the kick. Why is it "wrong"?

Referees don't stay behind the kicker for a 22m dropout

Actually, I think many of us do. At that point there is no reference line across the pitch to assist you with offsides; you need to be level to properly assess the "ahead of the kicker" offence.

 

[OB..]

really? you think that the players will notice where you start from?

Yes. I have heard comments about it in the bar afterwards, for example.

 

[crossref]

Yes. I have heard comments about it in the bar afterwards, for example.

like
player #1 - what did you think of the ref today then? I checked his appointments this morning and looks like we're the first L8 game he's had, and I noticed there was an assessor as well, I reckon it was a stretch for him

player #2 - well his handling of the breakdown was good, but he missed a few tricks in the scrums, far too many resets, didn't pick up on the binding problems until way too late. But his positioning at the restarts was was bang on.

#1 - (reflectively) yeah, you're right. anyway your round I think ?

#2 - it is - can I borrow your card?

 

[OB..]

like
player #1 - what did you think of the ref today then? I checked his appointments this morning and looks like we're the first L8 game he's had, and I noticed there was an assessor as well, I reckon it was a stretch for him

player #2 - well his handling of the breakdown was good, but he missed a few tricks in the scrums, far too many resets, didn't pick up on the binding problems until way too late. But his positioning at the restarts was was bang on.

#1 - (reflectively) yeah, you're right. anyway your round I think ?

#2 - it is - can I borrow your card?

:biggrin:

More like: "That ref was so unfit he even had to stand in front of us at the kick-offs."

 

[Robert Burns]

When starting from a kick off, regardless of the direction the ball goes the referee should be running a straight line, roughly level with the players running for the ball, once the ball is caught they should basically move at a right angle to engage the contact situation.

This keeps the referee away from the incoming players, but able to see what's going on.

 

[ddjamo]

I used to do what st. nige does until I got an ass chewing for it. I said the same stuff - I can hear the thud, I don't need to be next to them to see them overstepping the line - how was I at keeping them 10 at the lineouts? I'm nowhere near the back line then?

only comment from the assessor, "you cannot see it unless you are behind or next to them."

there you go - backed up in science.

and as we all know - your eyes bounce when you run...so the argument that a referee is lazy because he starts in front is bs. if I am to the point of contact or where the ball will be tipped and my eyes are not bouncing - I'm better off than running full bore, avoiding players and trying to figure what is going on...

 

[Phil E]

and as we all know - your eyes bounce when you run......

My eyes have built in stabilisers.

 

[Dickie E]

I used to do what st. nige does until I got an ass chewing for it. I said the same stuff - I can hear the thud, I don't need to be next to them to see them overstepping the line - how was I at keeping them 10 at the lineouts? I'm nowhere near the back line then?

only comment from the assessor, "you cannot see it unless you are behind or next to them."

there you go - backed up in science.

and as we all know - your eyes bounce when you run...so the argument that a referee is lazy because he starts in front is bs. if I am to the point of contact or where the ball will be tipped and my eyes are not bouncing - I'm better off than running full bore, avoiding players and trying to figure what is going on...

Agreed. Like the first scrum, the first tackle from the kick off can be the most important and most fractious so why not give yourself every opportunity to be right on the spot, not running some crazy angle from the half way line with a dozen players in the way.

And we are all quite comfortable managing the chargers at a conversion without having to stand on the goal line along side them.

 

[4eyesbetter]

I have never been more grateful for League players using deep kickoffs 95% of the time than I am after reading this thread!

 

[Dickie E]

Yes. I have heard comments about it in the bar afterwards, for example.

Are there other situations where you advise referees to stand in poor positions in order to prove to players that they can turn the gas on to get into the right position?

 

[Womble]

If you can get the timing right and be at full speed as he kicks the ball then yes by all means be level or behind the kicker ( If your under 45 there is no excuse!!) But for us older folk a yard or two infront cant be laughed at as we understand the importance of being there!

 

[andyscott]

You can never ever beat the pace of a ball. Its all BS about being the first there. Look at the Elite level.

Please dont say its not the same game etc. They are the guys who have to pass the hardest fitness test of all of us.
Are they the 3rd man there at the breakdown, no they aren't. Are they 3rd man as the receiver catches the kick no!! Are they damn good refs, yes.
Its nothing more than some made up thing so someone can write in a report (not everyone, just the ones that dont offer suggestions about how to improve).

A wise man once said, sonny you can sit on the f34king crossbar all game as long as you dont miss anything.

 

[OB..]

Are there other situations where you advise referees to stand in poor positions in order to prove to players that they can turn the gas on to get into the right position?

I think there is an argument for both traditional and your view. I do not agree that your view is an open and shut case.

 

[Drift]

that's what I do.

but why not stand amongst the receivers, so that you are closer to where it lands? I have never done this, because it's never done. But it does seem logical.

I've done then when the ground had a cricket square in the middle of the pitch that was sticky and difficult to run on. Luckily they always kicked to their forwards as if it were on the other side of the ground I would've been horribly out of position.

 

[Browner]

that's what I do.

but why not stand amongst the receivers, so that you are closer to where it lands? I have never done this, because it's never done. But it does seem logical.

It's probably never done because of the checking of players 'in front of the kicker'

- - - Updated - - -

I think that's OK. I'd rather have that than be smacked by a ball in back of head.

BUT perhaps consider where you postion yourself. Can you routinely position yourself in such a way that he can always kick left/right without warning and you will be out of the way.

Ouch ..................... http://www.rugbydump.com/2012/11/2829/friday-funnies-referee-romain-poite-caught-in-front-of-the-kicker

 

[SimonSmith]

It's probably never done because of the checking of players 'in front of the kicker'

Which can be done just as well from in front of them.
Viz: offside, 10m at lineouts

 

[Dickie E]

Which can be done just as well from in front of them.
Viz: offside, 10m at lineouts

... and chargers at conversions

 

[Simon Thomas]

Referees don't stay behind the kicker for a 22m dropout

The ones I watch do, as do the showbiz guys

 

[AlanT]

I'd much rather start about 12-15m in front of the kicker on the basis of:

> Players in-front-of-the-kicker are rare, easy enough to spot and of debateable materiality at lower levels.

> Me starting 10m closer to the first breakdown means I'll get to the breakdown 1.5-2 seconds sooner (if we could find a way of getting to breakdowns 1.5-2 seconds sooner in open play, I suspect we'd all be doing it!!!)

So do I do it? Very rarely in 15-a-side because of (to me) an illogical tradition.