[Law] Pre-match chat with captains

[Phil E]

Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
Loser gets the option not chosen.

that's a bit misleading though as the loser only gets an option if the winner decides to kick. In that case the loser gets to make a choice of end

If the winner chooses an end then there is no choice for the loser to make.

It's an odd system, and it was only after I started to ref that I understood it. All my life until then I was under the impression that if the winner chose an end, the loser could decide whether to kick or not, and I have to say that would make more sense to me.

I am not surprised that captains get confused.

You really like to make life difficult for people don't you.

There are two options.
Option1 Kick off
Option 2 Choose an end.

Whichever option the winner chooses, the loser get the other option (or as I originally said "the option not chosen).

Please see my post #38 if your still confused.

 

[Pinky]

my PMB is front row numbers - determines if subs are allowed - and CBS
9 straight put in (I know but I referee at a level where we get this OK)
10 set offside lines at set piece
All - try to stay on your feet at breakdown. If I think you are offside I'll ask you to step back. If you do so and I don't think you have affected play, then play on. If I don't see movement I am thinking penalty advantage against you.
Communication through the captain. If I hear folk shouting "Ref" I'll assume its about someone seriously injured and I'll stop the game.
Occasionally I'll get a question or 2 about law changes and when is the ball out?

 

[Pegleg]

Already answered

 

[Rich_NL]

Occasionally I'll get a question or 2 about law changes and when is the ball out?

Really? I think I get a question about when the ball is out about 75% of the time. It may be that it's refereed less consistently here.

 

[crossref]

Really? I think I get a question about when the ball is out about 75% of the time. It may be that it's refereed less consistently here.

I pre empt the question and tell them
Often they arent listening and ask anyway

 

[Pegleg]

They arent listening anyway

Probably nearer the truth.

 

[ChuckieB]

that's a bit misleading though as the loser only gets an option if the winner decides to kick. In that case the loser gets to make a choice of end

If the winner chooses an end then there is no choice for the loser to make.

It's an odd system, and it was only after I started to ref that I understood it. All my life until then I was under the impression that if the winner chose an end, the loser could decide whether to kick or not, and I have to say that would make more sense to me.

I am not surprised that captains get confused.

Another thread on this not so long ago.

 

[ChuckieB]

And I don't respond kindly to constant questioning, "Is this OK, Sir? Am I the 5 metres?

Pace it out for yourself!

 

[ianh5979]

And I don't respond kindly to constant questioning, "Is this OK, Sir? Am I the 5 metres?

Pace it out for yourself!

easier to just say no, take another step!!:biggrin:

 

[OB..]

You really like to make life difficult for people don't you.

There are two options.
Option1 Kick off
Option 2 Choose an end.

Whichever option the winner chooses, the loser get the other option (or as I originally said "the option not chosen).

Please see my post #38 if your still confused.

It has always been thus
1871
[LAWS]39. The captains of the respective sides shall toss up before the commencement of the match, the winner of the toss shall have the option of goals or the kick-off .
[/LAWS]

There is no option to receive the kick (even though many Americans used to choose that when I was playing in the USA).

 

[crossref]

There is no option to receive the kick (even though many Americans used to choose that when I was playing in the USA).

Well, there is, and, strangely, if you win the toss and choose to receive the kick you also get your choice of end as well.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Well, there is, and, strangely, if you win the toss and choose to receive the kick you also get your choice of end as well.

Captains who opt to receive I ask which end they want which has on occasions prompted "Eh? He gets two choices?" from the opposition captain. And off we go again! Thick t***ts!

I have conducted the toss indoors and been told "we'll play with the wind". He then had to go outside to see which way the wind was blowing. Thick t***ts!

 

[crossref]

I have had teams choose an end , and then forget which end they chose.

The wind one is interesting. When it's windy should we delay the toss until nearer the kick off

 

[Dickie E]

You really like to make life difficult for people don't you.

I'm with crossref. It's a daft law and often causes confusion

 

[beckett50]

I'm with crossref. It's a daft law and often causes confusion

Why?

How simple can the question (to the Captain who called the coin toss correctly) "Do you want kick or ends?" :chin:

Now if you're from god's country and wear a cap.... :biggrin:

 

[crossref]

Because
.. if he chooses kick the other guy chooses ends
.. if he chooses ends it would be logical for the other guy to choose to kick or not

besides we have a thread full of examples of how captains and referees misunderstand it -- rather demonstrating that it's a bit counter-intuitive.

 

[didds]

Because
.. if he chooses kick the other guy chooses ends
.. if he chooses ends it would be logical for the other guy to choose to kick or not

Not really. The toss winner has conceded the kick. there is now no kick to choose from for the oppo.

If they wanted to not kick off, their skipper should have won the toss!

didds

 

[SimonSmith]

Because
.. if he chooses kick the other guy chooses ends
.. if he chooses ends it would be logical for the other guy to choose to kick or not

besides we have a thread full of examples of how captains and referees misunderstand it -- rather demonstrating that it's a bit counter-intuitive.

Oh FFS. It's only counterintuitive if you make it that way.

It's written, very clearly, in language my son could understand when he was 6. Now, he was, and is, a smart kid, but it's fairly bloody basic.

It only gets confusing when you bring in factors that aren't written in the law, like personal feeling or bias. I don't care WHY the law is written that way, it simply is. And it's pretty ****ing easy to understand.

 

[OB..]

Well, there is, and, strangely, if you win the toss and choose to receive the kick you also get your choice of end as well.

You either choose to kick-off, or you choose an end. That is what the law has said since 1871. If you want to receive, you achieve that by choosing an end.

Locally Old Patesians have a sloping pitch. If they win the toss they invariably choose to play uphill in order to have the downhill advantage in the second half.

 

[Dickie E]

You either choose to kick-off, or you choose an end. That is what the law has said since 1871.

something being in place since the stone age doesn't necessarily make it right.

If you want to receive, you achieve that by choosing an end.

There you have it. The toss-winning captain unfairly gets both outcomes that he wants: to receive the kick AND which end he wants.