Referee Knocked Out

dave_clark


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ooh, i don't know Phil. i've had plenty of games where the players weren't happy afterwards :p
 

Dixie


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Glad you were ok, but the locals think you remained concussed !! http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s344.htm?590,14344126

You have got to smile, The players were all happy after ( well I think they were ) and the spectators do tend to see it their own way :pepper:
And this is the issue, I think. The photos show you looking very groggy - similar to Scully in the Tigers v Northampton match. There may have been no lasting effect, but the crowd and the club management hasn't got your medical details. All they see is a dazed and confused ref getting back to his feet and awarding a game-changing PK the next minute. Even if that was accurate, the situation has left you vulnerable to doubt about your ability to handle the game. In the interests of all concerned, I think there should be a policy at the higher levels for ref and AR1 to swap - at least for the rest of the half.

http://www.neiltunney.co.uk/media.details.php?mediaID=NzM5NmRhN2MwOGI4MDI=
 
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crossref


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i am with Dixie -

the fact that womble felt OK to continue is the whole issue here -- concussed people often DO feel sure they can continue, and it's how to identify them and get them off the field despite that, which is the problem.


(I am speaking generally and not offering an opionion about womble, I wasn't there and haven't even seen the video yet, blocked at work)
 
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Waspsfan


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A missed opportunity Womble.... You should definitely have asked the first aided to check both your testicles were ok!
 

Dickie E


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pity as he hadn't had a poor game until that moment.


A compliment ... I think
 

Taff


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.... The photos show you looking very groggy .... All they see is a dazed and confused ref ...
For all we know, that may be what he looks like at the best of times. :biggrin:

A missed opportunity Womble.... You should definitely have asked the first aided to check both your testicles were ok!
 

Simon Thomas


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For all we know, that may be what he looks like at the best of times. [/img][/url]

last time I saw Womble he had a smile on his face as I was bent double demoing the new scrum engagement with him at the Group meeting :yellow::biggrin:
 

ChrisR

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Having a 'poor game' after getting KOd should not be the concern. The fact that the referee is a low risk of getting another blow to the head should not be a consideration. Assuming that Womble breaks into a trot now and then he was at risk by continuing.

Every coach must know that ANY exercise after a concussion can increase the damage done. And, if he was out, then damage WAS done.

Continuing was the worst decision of the day.
 

Daftmedic


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Any loss of consciousness increases the chance of brain injury. Kudos for you commitment to the game
 

The Fat


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Any loss of consciousness increases the chance of brain injury. Kudos for you commitment to the game

OK, I'll agree that his commitment is to be admired but his decision to continue was not a good or correct one. I've seen players concussed and 5 minutes later they look like they are raring to go and want to get back out onto the field. Half an hour later they don't know what day it is, what half it is or who they are playing and are then off to the hospital to get checked.
In Womble's case, the senior AR should have made the decision to relieve him and the medic should have backed the AR's decision.
Were either of the two AR's qualified at that level to handle the remainder of the match?
 

crossref


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maybe the junior AR should have the sepcific responsiblity of standing down the ref and putting the senior AR in charge.
 

Taff


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Any loss of consciousness increases the chance of brain injury. Kudos for you commitment to the game
And I think this is the problem.

If we expect a KOd ref to soldier on, we can't really complain if a KOd player wants to soldier on too.

If we agree that it's best for a KOd player to go off, the same applies to a KOd ref surely.
 

Simon Thomas


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Were either of the two AR's qualified at that level to handle the remainder of the match?

The whole point of appointed ARs at Panel level is that the nominated AR1 is capable of taking over - so usually is a L6 referee or ex-Panel Referee in his own right.

At Society level (for Cup, County Youth etc) we try to appoint an AR1 one level down from the match. AR2 may be a newer referee getting experience.
 

Simon Thomas


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maybe the junior AR should have the sepcific responsiblity of standing down the ref and putting the senior AR in charge.

They are a Team of 3, and usually they know each other. If the referee is injured and he makes the decision as to if he can continue - as with all else on the day the referee has primacy of decisions. If he can't continue the AR1 is there to take over - simples.

Why give it to the AR2 as a specific decision responsibility ? I can't see that one at all - AR2 has to keep score, manage blood bins & so running watch, referee's H/T drinks, remember the match ball, lock the dressing room and keep the key, and lots more besides :biggrin:

In the case above, Womble as the referee made his decision. Was there an issue ? Were any subsequent decisions questioned ? Did Womble collapse ? I don't know who was AR1 at the match in question, but suspect he/she knows Womblew pretty well, and vice versa, So if it had been necessary to tell him to come off, then it would have happened.
 

dave_clark


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i suspect the logic behind AR2 making the decision is that they are the only member of the TO3 who are not directly impacted by it (i.e. their role doesn't significantly change, they are still an AR).

whether this is palateable or not is a different matter.
 

crossref


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simon I don't think we were really disucssing womble directly- but the general issues raised if a referee is knocked out.

The problem is that a concussed person might not be fit to make a decision. Concussed indivuduals can be certain they are fit to continue and be forced off the pitch for their own good.

Medics, coaches, captains and referees all have the authority to do that, and anyone who has done one fo those jobs for any length of time will have used that authority to force a concussed player off the pitch for their own good.

But who has the authority to force a concussed referee off the pitch, if he doesn't want to go?
 

Browner

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In the absence of Cockerill running into the stand to get Ed Morrison's replacement ............ then probably only his wife ??!!?? :knuppel2:
 
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