[Law] Regarding a Try

[nylluma]

Hello all, first post here, hope I don't make anything wrong :hap:

Today I was looking at the 2018 laws and noticed something that looked a bit different to me:

[LAWS]8.2: A try is scored when an attacking player:
[FONT=fs_blakeregular]e) Who is in touch or touch-in-goal, grounds the ball in the opponents’ in-goal provided the player is not holding the ball.[/FONT][/LAWS]

I simply cannot grasp it. Was this a rule in 2017 laws, was this already in practice and I'm seeing it for the first time, or is this a new thing? Aren't you supposed not to be in touch or touch-in-goal in order to score a try?

Also if this is a thing is the following scenario a try?
Red 10 kicks the ball into the In-goal near the touch in goal line, red 14 who was behind Red 10, who is onside, runs outside of the flag post and puts his hand on the ball, which is In-goal, while his feet are in touch.

Anyway, thanks in advance :hap:

 

[Balones]

Hello all, first post here, hope I don't make anything wrong :hap:

Today I was looking at the 2018 laws and noticed something that looked a bit different to me:

[LAWS]8.2: A try is scored when an attacking player:
[FONT=fs_blakeregular]e) Who is in touch or touch-in-goal, grounds the ball in the opponents’ in-goal provided the player is not holding the ball.[/FONT][/LAWS]

I simply cannot grasp it. Was this a rule in 2017 laws, was this already in practice and I'm seeing it for the first time, or is this a new thing? Aren't you supposed not to be in touch or touch-in-goal in order to score a try?

Also if this is a thing is the following scenario a try?
Red 10 kicks the ball into the In-goal near the touch in goal line, red 14 who was behind Red 10, who is onside, runs outside of the flag post and puts his hand on the ball, which is In-goal, while his feet are in touch.

Anyway, thanks in advance :hap:

Welcome.
All questions welcome.
Yes you can score a try in the situation you describe. It has always been the case. Well, as far back as I can remember. There are people on this forum that go back much further and could perhaps tell you when it was actually written into the laws.

 

[Decorily]

Hi and welcome.
Good question. It is possible for a player in the scenario referred to to score a try.
The only issue to be determined is if the ball is on the ground when that player first touches it or if the player first catches/touches the ball in the air and then grounds it. The latter situation will not count as a try.

 

[L'irlandais]

A picture is worth a thousand words, scroll down to the 4th image in 8.2 Law 8: Scoring
[LAWS]The one entitled: Scoring a try - a player in touch-in-goal who is not holding the ball[/LAWS]

 

[Christy]

hi nylluma .
i believe there is a drawing of same in 2017 book , might also be in 2018 book .

basically if the ball is on the floor inside { in goal } . close to the side line or dead ball line .
a player who is out side field of play { standing out side in goal side line or dead ball line }
if he wants to lean over line & apply down ward pressure to the ball that is on the floor .
it still counts as a try .

 

[crossref]

I agree with the OP it's a really silly Law and I can't understand why it should be that way.

But it's not new in 2018 it's been like that a while

 

[didds]

Its reasoning must be buried in the mists of time. never made much sense to me either!

didds

 

[ChrisR]

The critical point is: When the player first touches the ball it must be on the ground. If the ball is in the air when he first touches it, but then he guides to the ground, it is not a try.

This is an event where two things happen simultaneously (grounding in goal and touching a player not in the playing area) and the lawmakers went for the try.

 

[SimonSmith]

Its reasoning must be buried in the mists of time. never made much sense to me either!

didds

It's not dissimilar, in principle, to the idea that a player in touch can knock the ball that hasn't crossed the plane.

 

[didds]

Good point Simon.

What if player in touch places downward pressure on a ball in the FoP ? Which is directly analogous.

didds



didds

 

[pedr]

There is no objectively obvious/correct result when two events which have consequences due to the laws of the game occur simultaneously. In this scenario it is _both_ a try (because a ball on the ground in-goal has been pressed down on by a player of the side attacking that in-goal) _and_ it is touch/touch-in-goal (because a player who is in touch has touched the ball).

So the makers of the laws have to decide which consequence should occur. They chose a try - and in doing so removed the need for a decision about the location of the player in this situation, which is probably wise.

 

[crossref]

That last point is a good one

 

[Pinky]

Good point Simon.

What if player in touch places downward pressure on a ball in the FoP ? Which is directly analogous.

didds



didds

Play on - if he is not the ball carrier, then the ball is not in touch if he plays it.

 

[didds]

That actually surprises me but fair enough.

So if A is standing in touch and the ball is rolling in the FoP next to him he can reach into the FoP and - say - flip it up to an oncoming supporter?

didds

 

[nylluma]

Play on - if he is not the ball carrier, then the ball is not in touch if he plays it.

Isn't the player in possession of the ball though?

Definitions:
Ball-carrier: A player who is in possession of the ball.
Possession: an individual or team in control of the ball or who are attempting to bring it under control.

and

[LAWS]18.1: The ball is in touch when:
a) The ball or ball-carrier touches the touchline, touch-in-goal line or anything beyond.[/LAWS]

I might be overthinking but isn't placing downward pressure "attempting to bring [the ball] under control," and by this logic should be in touch?

 

[Balones]

Isn't the player in possession of the ball though?

Definitions:
Ball-carrier: A player who is in possession of the ball.
Possession: an individual or team in control of the ball or who are attempting to bring it under control.

and

[LAWS]18.1: The ball is in touch when:
a) The ball or ball-carrier touches the touchline, touch-in-goal line or anything beyond.[/LAWS]

I might be overthinking but isn't placing downward pressure "attempting to bring [the ball] under control," and by this logic should be in touch?

You are correct.

 

[ChrisR]

Didds, see nyllumas post re. "possession". Flipping it up would be 'bringing under control' putting downward pressure on a ball in goal instantly causes the ball to be grounded. So different animal.

 

[Jolly Roger]

So would you say that a player standing in touch who knocks a ball backwards before it has reached the plane of touch was in posession and therefore linout? I hope not.

How then is the situation any different when the player in touch “flips” the ball back to a team mate? Or in the same scenario he places a hand on the ball to steady its movement?

I would not interpret any of these situations as the player taking the ball under control and therefor being in possession. The “juggling” Law was introduced in 2017 to clarify the situation when a player was tackled whilst juggling a ball that he had just received.

Let us not look for issues where there are none.

 

[crossref]

what if the ball is on the ground in the FoP, and with one foot in touch a player kicks the ball (ie with the other foot) to a teammate

 

[Balones]

what if the ball is on the ground in the FoP, and with one foot in touch a player kicks the ball (ie with the other foot) to a teammate

No problem. Play on. See touch definitions - at least the 2017 version from knowledge! Not checked 2018 yet.

Checked - in laws 18.2.c