The "ref" is likely to be dad with a whistle that might have been lent to him on the day.
And what management tools do you think he has? (Other than to walk away?)
Restarts in midi
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The "ref" is likely to be dad with a whistle that might have been lent to him on the day.
And what management tools do you think he has? (Other than to walk away?)
people frequently say things like this on the site, sniffiliy, but I fear its an impression born of heasay and supposition. It's not my experience.
yes, he may well be a dad, just as the coach, the assistant coach, the manager and shirt-washer, the tour organiser and the chief fundraiser of the age group are also likely to be dads, or mums, that's the way rugby works
but as well as being a dad the average midi ref may also be an ex-player, an ex coach or even - quite often - on saturday he may a society ref.
if he isn't a society ref by midi rugby he will very likely have done ELRA (at my club he certainly would have) and he would be taking his referee responsibility seriously. Every ref has to have a first game, but if this is a tournament it's extremely unlikely that this is it, so he will have had expereince of abusive coaches and parents, and kids both surprisibly skillful and surprisingly clueless.
At tournament he will know the age group rules , and be much better at communicatuing with the kids than the experience society ref who we will discover has been brought in as celeb to ref the final, who wsn't at the ref briefing (too important) and who will make one or specific age-group related clangers (because he's never reffed U11 for years and the rules have changed or else he forgot them) and will be taken for a ride by the players when he prefers to explain rather than penalise, under the mistake impression that the kids don't know what they are doing.
[/RANTMODE]
that's enough. but honestly, you society refs! age groups refs are not as clueless as you guys think, and on the other side of the fence I have seen some pretty clueless society refs in my time, who give every impression of picking up a whistle that morning.
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Crossref,
Others on here know a bit more about my history and know I've served my time in age group refereeing - I'm not criticising age group refs and I recognise your "celeb" society ref who's only ever done adult games ruining everyone's Sunday.
My point is that those refs "dads with whistles" don't generally have our training, experience and most importantly the support we all had from our societies (and from this site - though they're welcome to join of course!), and so I believe it is manifestly unfair to put them under the sort of pressure that can come from over-enthusiastic coaches reliving their playing careers through their 9 year olds.
Which is why I have strong feelings of contempt for those coaches.
The "dad with a whistle" is likely to know the regulations better than most of my society colleagues - but that doesn't mean it's fair to expect him to deal with the management challenge which for an Under 8s final of the local county festival can be close to that of a 1st XV county cup final!
It's not the players. The players are little kids who are just doing what they're told to do.
It's the people off the pitch - the ones telling them what to do.
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Jeepers....we are talking about adults here aren't we?
Adults with jobs, who most probably manage people at work every day. Who have families and wives to deal with.
Just because you give them a whistle doesn't mean they forget all that.
And of course for £25 they can all do a Refereeing Mini Midi course to transfer those work/life skills to refeeeing a bunch of kids and managing the touchline.
Adults with jobs, who most probably manage people at work every day. Who have families and wives to deal with.
Just because you give them a whistle doesn't mean they forget all that.
And of course for £25 they can all do a Refereeing Mini Midi course to transfer those work/life skills to refeeeing a bunch of kids and managing the touchline.
I don't. I merely gave an example of a scenario where it might arise.
Jogging back to position would be regarded as time-wasting by you?
Good.
And the best incentive is for them to realise that they will be the losers if they don't get back as fast as they can.
No - jogging back not be time wasting.
we were talking about lengthy score celebrations and dawdling back - that may well be time wasting, so manage it - if necessary stop the clock to do so.
Jogging back isn't a delaying tactic - and simply allowing a side to engage in a footrace to the middle is a good way to lose control of the game.
we were talking about lengthy score celebrations and dawdling back - that may well be time wasting, so manage it - if necessary stop the clock to do so.
Jogging back isn't a delaying tactic - and simply allowing a side to engage in a footrace to the middle is a good way to lose control of the game.
there's a place between the two ends of the the spectrum though, where blue score, and red retrieve the ball and walk/amble back to the centre at a leisurely pace and take the kick - off while blue aren't looking (not because they are timewasting, but because they are arsing about and not paying attention)
Fine - but I still say the ref should manage it.
It may be hard for a dad with a whistle, but then again if he allows the quick KO then he is giving himself a control problem - but unless he reads this thread then we can't help him.
It may be hard for a dad with a whistle, but then again if he allows the quick KO then he is giving himself a control problem - but unless he reads this thread then we can't help him.
TigerCraig
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We start conversions at Under 10 - in line with the try but no wider out than the 15m line. Some of these kids are awesome kickers for their size
(my sons team actually won the Under 11 premiership on the back of conversions when the Grand Final was 2 tries each)
If the kicking side can get back quickly from under the posts, so can the referee, who started nearer the halfway line. Anyway, the laws are intended for the players, not the comfort of the referee.
But why should that necessarily involve making the kicking side wait for their opponents?
Dickie E
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OB & Davet, not sure if you guys are now discussing juniors or seniors but with regard to the OP:
in a normal rugby game this situation isn't a problem because it self-regulates. Ie: conversion process gives ample time for scoring team to regather 10 metres on their side of 1/2 way.
If we play a game with modified rules (ie no conversions) I see it as inequitable to incidentally disadvantage players beyond the intent of the modification.
in a normal rugby game this situation isn't a problem because it self-regulates. Ie: conversion process gives ample time for scoring team to regather 10 metres on their side of 1/2 way.
If we play a game with modified rules (ie no conversions) I see it as inequitable to incidentally disadvantage players beyond the intent of the modification.
I am definitely talking about the adult game.
I agree with having an appropriate restriction in the mini game.
Our U9/10 matches are played on a quarter pitch - there aren't enough goal posts around for conversions.
U11/U12 play across a half pitch, they have conversions but since they don't score on the goal line, all conversions are taken from right in front of the posts.
Most festivals don't have conversions as pitches are fitted in in every practical spot on a club's grounds and some will not have posts, also, taking up to a minute per kick means even less time to play - and finally, the results would almost never be affected by conversions anyway.
We're talking about "nice, decent people", who aren't sure of themselves or of "the rules". People drafted in to help out the kids for a morning who dimly remember playing rugby at school and have stood on the touchline for a few weeks who hope they can remember how they thought last weeks ref did his thing.
Well, if that's all it takes when you know you're out of your depth to stand up to a load of people who seem to know more about the game than you do, I shouldn't have any problems doing the Premiership final in May. Perhaps I'll give that bloke at the RFU a call and tell him Pearson, Barnes et all can have a well deserved day off and perhaps watch from the bar for a change?
So - if we have the footrace and some of the receivers make it back to their own half, but inside the 10m, and the kicker kicks, and one of them charges it down and picks up and races off...
Do you play on? As per Law which says if an opponent plays it within the 10m then carry on.
Do you bring it back for a rekick? As per law that says if opponents are not behind own 10m line when ball is kicked then retake KO?
Or do you think, Damn! Wish I'd not got myself into this mess.
Agreed, but that is not what I said. We are talking about managing and controlling a game for the ultimate benefit of the players.
Do you play on? As per Law which says if an opponent plays it within the 10m then carry on.
Do you bring it back for a rekick? As per law that says if opponents are not behind own 10m line when ball is kicked then retake KO?
Or do you think, Damn! Wish I'd not got myself into this mess.
Agreed, but that is not what I said. We are talking about managing and controlling a game for the ultimate benefit of the players.
Dixie
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Normally, but not always, the case. A side chasing the game may well, after scoring under the posts, take a quick drop-kick conversion as in sevens. The oppo then has the chance to restart quickly with the scoring team out of position.
Well in some cases maybe.
But certainly at my club most of the coaches and refs for the U7 through U17 age groups are either current or recently retired players with a fair Law knowledge and plenty of game nouse.
I penalise the player under Law 10.4 (m) because he is supposed to get back behind his 10m line first.