[Junior] RFU U14 regs/laws

[crossref]

The difference being A club appointment on a Sunday to a U12 game is A WRU appointment. We have no "unauthorised" appointments.

Keeps it simple.

It's no different here, clubs are authorized to appoint to an u12 games , and the ref could wear his RFU ELRA shirt , showing that he has the qualification.
But shouldnt really wear his Society shirt as he wasn't appointed by them.

 

[didds]

Our chap was all very matching shirt and socks etc. I assumed it was a society shirt!

didds

 

[Phil E]

Many AG games are reffed by a coach with no refereeing training other than watching Wayne Barnes on TV and listening to his dad Stuart commentate. (that's a joke incidentally)

Are you sure? What's the punch line?
Incidentally the Stadium Manager at Tigers is called Stuart Barnes!

 

[didds]

Is it a punch line, or a slap line? generically a strike line?

didds

 

[crossref]

Many AG games are reffed by a coach with no refereeing training other than watching Wayne Barnes on TV and listening to his dad Stuart commentate. (that's a joke incidentally)

Actually, I don't think that's the case.
When I was club ref coordinator our policy was that all 15-a-side games were reffed by someone who had been on the RFU course --- and that was the same at all the clubs that I ever encountered. This policy was well supported, including by the want-to-be refs. In fact our problem was the reverse: paying for people to go on the course who then never actually went on to ref.

 

[didds]

I doubt many youth coaches around our neck of the woods have done an ELRA. When I was CCC (twice) we had a very few coaches that did ELRA - and never reffed anybody.

Two coaches that did ELRA and moved to reffing. one that then came back to coaching and refs games still.

And loads that never did ELRA even though the funds were there and we (well, I!) promoted the idea. I never did one cos I never wanted to ref, but wanted to coach. I only toyed with it with a view to understandign "better" - but that's why I am here as much as anything. I DID do a club TJ course because I did TJ.

didds

 

[Pegleg]

Again here in Wales a Level 1 (referee) course is (or certainly was) part of the coachng requirement. So a basic understanding of the laws are there. Not a bad I dea but it can lead to the "I'm a qualified ref................." comments at times.

 

[Bunniksider]

I had a question from our U14s coach about their uncontested lineouts. Perhaps other coaches at this level could help. Is the lineout uncontested until it's over under usual laws or is it just the throw and catch that is uncontested and once caught then oppo are permitted to sack receiver etc. How are you playing it?

 

[Phil E]

I had a question from our U14s coach about their uncontested lineouts. Perhaps other coaches at this level could help. Is the lineout uncontested until it's over under usual laws or is it just the throw and catch that is uncontested and once caught then oppo are permitted to sack receiver etc. How are you playing it?

Its the jump/lift that's uncontested.
Once the ball is secured then its back to contested.

 

[didds]

That's how we agreed to play it last weekend indeed Phil.

it seemed ridiculous to allow potentially the free throw and catch and then the catcher to be able to run through the oppo lineout without being allowed to be tackled etc.

So agreed - throw and catch is uncontested but once the catcher;s feet are back on the floor (assuming they ever left!) its game on. ISTR at much younger AGs the entire process is uncontested but the ball is supposed to be passed away not mauled/driven

didds

 

[Bunniksider]

Its the jump/lift that's uncontested.
Once the ball is secured then its back to contested.

That's how it was interpreted for my U15s last year where were had uncontested lifting. However looking at the U14s regs below c and f would imply that the lineout (not the catch) is uncontested until it is over in the usual ways.

15. The Lineout:
a) The lineout will be awarded from the touchline level with where the ball crossed the line, to the opponents of the player who touched the
ball before it went into touch.
b) The ball must be thrown down the middle of the channel. If the throw is not straight, a lineout will be awarded to the opposing team. If this throw is not straight, a scrum will be awarded to the (team originally awarded the line out) on the 15m line.
c) The lineout will be uncontested by up to 13 players from each team
d) No lifting or supporting of any kind is allowed.
e) Players not involved in the lineout must remain 10 metres behind the mark and must do so until invited forward by the referee.
f) The lineout ends when the ball or a player carrying it leaves the lineout or the ball goes beyond the 15m or into the 5m channel.

 

[Phil E]

Sorry, I was thinking of U15.

Yes 15.c seems to say the whole lineout is uncontested.

 

[didds]

yes... the "issue" I have with it is that as that means the ball or the player carrying the ball must the lineout ... and for the catcher to take off upfield post catch and land that would (in the limited explanations available) mean presumably the ball has to pass the LoT? So now before the oppo can actually touch him he is probably in line with defenders - and guaranteed at least a big go forward as all those defenders have to get "onside" or come through the gate subsequently. I am not convinced that this is what the law makers intended.

now - we can of course go on about how this isn;t about using the laws to our advantage and that other stuff needs to be utilised (catch and drive, OTT to a backline etc) but lets not be naive enough that nobody wouold ever ever explaoit this potential ... even if only accidentally!

I'm of course happy to follow this exactly to the letter of the law - I am just not convinced it is what is really meant.

I wouldn;t know who to ask specifically.

didds

 

[Phil E]

I wouldn;t know who to ask specifically.

didds

laws@rfu.com

 

[didds]

Cheers Phil.

Quick question then to clarify... generally speaking (ie not specifically u14 here) a maul "leaves" the lineout when


- the ball (wherever that may be) crosses the line of touch?
- the hindmost feet of the maul crosses the Line of touch?
- something else?

cheers

didds

 

[didds]

ah!
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?13458-When-is-line-out-over

dixie: until the rear foot of the ensuing ruck or maul moves beyond the line of touch.

didds

 

[Dickie E]

I'm of course happy to follow this exactly to the letter of the law - I am just not convinced it is what is really meant.

You'd have to think that is not what is meant. Extreme case is catcher holds the ball and does ... nothing. Stands there while the clock runs down, untouchable by opposition.

 

[ChuckieB]

I have been through this in the last 2 years with progression at u14, U15 and now U16. It is still supposed to about basic skills building blocks and learning of the rudiments of the game.

My recollection is that uncontested relates to the throw such that the throwing side must be allowed to catch the ball from a legitimate throw. Play will then have to develop as normal, otherwise you don't have the necessary building blocks heading into U15 and beyond.

As such it is about all about the a straight throw, a clean catch (as if!) and then whatever distribution by the catcher through the nominated receiver, the formation of the Ruck or Maul or otherwise.

It all goes pear shaped when the ball does not go to the intended catcher or is dropped. I recall the approach that was commonly adopted was that once the ball went to ground it could be contested as if in open play. Get it right next time rather than start again!

There was always much confusion in the absence of agreement between the coaches and the ref. Just make sure you're all singing off the same hymn sheet on this one and you won't go far wrong.

 

[didds]

Cheers ChuckieB; Id have to say that that is the most pragmatic way forward. Though I can see the whole point made in #51.


I've emailed laws@rfu.com

didds

 

[ChuckieB]

Cheers ChuckieB; Id have to say that that is the most pragmatic way forward. Though I can see the whole point made in #51.


I've emailed laws@rfu.com

didds

I will seek out u14's at next training (tonight I think) to see if this is still the right understanding. My sons group were 1 year ahead of all the significant changes (free pass rubbish, reduced pitch size changes etc,) and so we have been quite lucky!