Rugby union's referees left exposed
- Thread starter Jenko
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Dixie
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Didn't you get the memo? Are you scabbing? Have you paid your dues under the closed shop arrangement? I think we should be told - and Brother Thomas can assess your guilt or otherwise by the traditional method of hanging you over a flaming brazier until you confess.
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crossref - indeed there is. RFRU (Rugby Football Referees Union) is a CB (Constituent Body) in its own right alongside the 60 or so County RFUs, Armed Forces RFUs, Cambridge Uni, oh and that other place, etc. So RFRU has a seat on the RFU Council, held currently by Jim Coulsen of Northumbria.
The RFRU is made up of one representative from each of the Federations - most ex-Society Chairmen and usually also Panel Assessors, Ref Coaches, ex Panel Refs or TJs (as they were then), etc - so vastly experienced guys and aware of the whole range of needs from grassroots to Panel.
They meet bi-monthly with all meetings minuted with action points etc. In the past the RFU Refs manager and Elite Manager attended, plus other RFU paid staff.
A sub-committee was fomed in July and has been in intense discussions and debates with the new Development Dept management.
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We should go back to something like this...
When we used to put scrums down THIS way, we didn't have anywhere near as many problems as we do now.
Also, check out the timing
0:06 sec - Scrum ordered
0:16 sec - scrum engaged and packed (10 seconds)
0:17 sec - ball in -- and straight too! (1 sec)
0:21 sec - ball out (4 sec)
When do you ever see "scrum ordered" to "ball out" in 15 seconds these days!?
When we used to put scrums down THIS way, we didn't have anywhere near as many problems as we do now.
Also, check out the timing
0:06 sec - Scrum ordered
0:16 sec - scrum engaged and packed (10 seconds)
0:17 sec - ball in -- and straight too! (1 sec)
0:21 sec - ball out (4 sec)
When do you ever see "scrum ordered" to "ball out" in 15 seconds these days!?
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just about everyone apart from you it seems ! :biggrin: seriously though, everone who has been on a Society and/or Federation Committee will know about RFRU.
they speak face-to-face in the bi-monthly meetings, they speak on the phone, they send and reveive emails, they have phone conference calls, etc - normal communications.
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the RFRU will commment on and contribute to debates about Law and the application of it by match officials, but I do not believe that it is the RFRU's current remit to come to conclusions about the scrum specifically. That of course may change, as other areas of influence and governance have recently.
The specific scrum issues will be the task of a RFU sub-committee, who no doubt would consult both the RFRU and the new Development Dept amongst many others.
I will do some digging and ask a few questions to those who know about these things.
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At the end perhaps
But at least it didn't collapse when it was set, there was no big hit and no reset, and it didn't take over 60 seconds from the time the referee ordered it to the time the ball was back in play.
Some digging has thrown up this case from SA.
http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZAWCHC/2011/100.html
http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZASCA/2012/132.html
http://www.rugby365.com/article/49839-jack-knife-hooker-liable-for-injuries
You'll probably need some Afrikaans to be able to understand all of the testimony, but, there you have Balie Swart and André Watson giving evidence where a player is found liable for dangerous actions on the pitch - and paragraph 62 in the first link stands some thoughtful reading, too.
http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZAWCHC/2011/100.html
http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZASCA/2012/132.html
http://www.rugby365.com/article/49839-jack-knife-hooker-liable-for-injuries
You'll probably need some Afrikaans to be able to understand all of the testimony, but, there you have Balie Swart and André Watson giving evidence where a player is found liable for dangerous actions on the pitch - and paragraph 62 in the first link stands some thoughtful reading, too.
the jack-knife case was about as bad as you can imagine it getting.
the idea of an organised call with the intention that the oppo hooker's head has nowhere to go ... makes me shudder.
That's a idea that would deserve criminal charges (let alone the actions for damages)
And it's certainly not anything the Law-makers or referees can mitigate for..
the idea of an organised call with the intention that the oppo hooker's head has nowhere to go ... makes me shudder.
That's a idea that would deserve criminal charges (let alone the actions for damages)
And it's certainly not anything the Law-makers or referees can mitigate for..
I've seen more than one instance in the Pro12 of the LH doing more or less the same to the TH: LH tucks in tight to the hooker, shutting off his channel, and makes the TH go outside. I can think of at least one AP team notorious for setting up with the LH's head tucked into the hooker's chest to try to do more or less the same, and act as a wedge to pop the opposition hooker (and try to win a penalty, when the offence is driving up instead of being driven up). Failure to punish driving up, in fact, rewarding it, just incentivises ways to get the reward; but it's dangerous.
It's a lot more common that you'd think.
To take another example of something clearly dangerous, clearly outside the Laws, but never punished: how often do you see a second shove after a collapse?
dave_clark
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i saw Andrew Small penalise this exact thing earlier in the season.
Then good man, Andrew. More of the same, please!