breako
- this one isn't in the Laws, and there is no consistency in the IRB videos that show the engagement sequence.
So it's a guidance thing, not a Law thing
In England the RFU have said that they want signals to be non-verbal and the London Society told us all (in line with RFU guidance I am sure) that we should use tap on the back when on the SH side, and a signal when on the other side. So far as I know every English Society issued the same instructions
I think the last time we discussed this refs in other couintries said their advice differed, so you might want a Irish response to your quesiton
so you might want a Irish response to your quesiton
Ps in ARU land we say nothing nor touch nothing. (Except some refs watch too much elite level and I against the guidance and tell them or touch them)
So how do you give the SH the signal if you are standing behind him?
we don't give any signal. SH feeds at his discretion (like in the old days)
I assume you see no signs of teams devising tricky ways to take advantage?we don't give any signal. SH feeds at his discretion (like in the old days)
we don't give any signal. SH feeds at his discretion (like in the old days)
I assume you see no signs of teams devising tricky ways to take advantage?
And let's face it, at the elite level I still see more often than not the refs giving the signal when the scrum isn't steady...they just go through the motions of the cadence with what the SH is doing not what the FR is doing.
That explains it a little better menace... but (I have probably misunderstood!) you are now in teh area of the S/H having to second guess the ref's perception?
If the sh genuinely thinks the scrum is stationary and puts in - but the ref doesn't... FK.
Or the opposite view also sees a FK...
didds
I assume you see no signs of teams devising tricky ways to take advantage?
Fascinating. The purpose of requiring scrummagers to await the signal was to prevent "hit and drive". ARU presumably doesn't perceive that as a problem (presumably because all the fat boys have already fallen over by that point).
IMHO the CBS call has done the job of eliminating "hit & drive"
IRB - may 2013.... Referees will be stricter
IRB Chairman Bernard Lapasset said: “The scrum is a fundamental and dynamic part of our Game. It is important that we continue to promote the best possible player welfare standards and this trial process is about putting players first and delivering a reduction of the forces on engagement at elite level, which could have significant positive effects on long-term player welfare.”
“The global implementation of this trial is a forward step, which will be subject to continual monitoring and evaluation. I would like to thank all Unions for their support and enthusiasm throughout this process.”
Coupled with the process, the IRB will instruct referees to ensure that the ball does not enter the tunnel unless the scrum is square and stationary and that a straight throw-in is strictly policed.
Lapasset added: “The implementation of the revised sequence alone is not about overcoming all the challenges of the elite scrum but it is a forward step. There is a collective responsibility for coaches, players and administrators to make the scrum a positive, fair and, above all, safe contest. Match officials will be stricter when refereeing the existing law.”