shake and say sorry

[OB..]

If the outcome is the objective, then "whatever gets you there " gets my vote !

The desired outcome is not that they should shake hands, but that the situation should be defused. The handshake does not do that.

 

[Browner]

But Didds, some children need prompting to say "please" and "thank you". They're kids ... and some have very few social skills; that doesn't make them bad. In some instances I can see a benefit, especially if combined with some humour as Browner suggested - just to difuse a situation and where a bit of mutual saving pride was needed.

Why would prompting a kid to act like an adult be patronising? In fact it would probably make them feel more grown-up.

Hi Taff - clearly some don't get the 'Gist'
some of the replies indicate 'officialdom on legs'
No-one said it was law ! ....... No-one suggested it's a flawless approach

Last week I reffed a game, the team losing 55-0 eventually won really fast ball at a ruck for a rare change! ....the opposition pointed out 'head injury sir' , quick glance I agreed - so i stopped the game ........... then in the spirit of the game we restarted with a free kick to the NIL team.....yep my suggestion-accepted universally as good thinking .... in law? - no!, in spirit of the game-yes!

Learning how to work with referees, and to adjust to their [sometimes localised] interpretation is part of the 'learning' of the game [very very very important in young players IMO] to help avoid the confrontational 'Football' style aggression toward 'sir'
Personally I will do whatever i can to help young players learn about "channeling aggression" and "respect for officials" ........ persuading a young man to accept 'unequivocally' whatever sir says , will IMO help him in life in general

Imagine a world where
....teachers can't ask kids to hand over the knuckle duster because there is nothing in the school handbook that says you can't carry one.
...or police officer says c'mon lads ....stop being disrespectful to that old age pensioner....only to hear that "No! - there's no law against disrespecting the old bat "
.... or the employment world where the boss asks someone to do something they don't agree with or understand or want to do

We have the best sport in the world IMO for many reasons, social/opposition interaction/respect/friendship/touchline humour all feature heavily in my tick list....

'Respect for the man is the catalyst for everything else that follows ......[and that includes touchline berating] .If I fail every assessment ever it matters not to me, I won't compromise the belief that - doing whatever SIR asks - even if he's clearly wrong or you don't like what he's asking, is a generally good good thing for ruggar in particular & society's benefit generally.

If anyone searches "referee attacked" on you tube you'll see all the sports where 'respect for authority' is diminishing .... the motorised wheelchair occupant who drives his buggy at the referees shins is a unusual example!!

For the avoidance of doubt, I can be a black & white ref if i choose . . . . & likely I will if & when I decide to climb the Levels. but lets remember rfu participation = c. 700,000+ in the uk .... 98% in schools and at grass roots clubs .... Not professional clubs !

& for those 98% participants 'sir/madam' is central, unpaid & always a volunteer.

handshakes?....if sir asks for it - yes please ....... a symbolic act of respectful compliance

xx
Ruggar a lifestyle choice

 

[Dickie E]

I do not believe that a handshake in itself defuses the situation, and that is particularly true if the handshake is forced.

A voluntary handshake defuses the situation. A forced one doesn't.

But if it works for Browner, all power to him.

 

[Taff]

.... we handle it at Society level in our training programmes, especially for newer refs. ..... We have role play sessions for new refs on how to deal with confrontation generally (often using police or services personnel as our experts based on their training) ...

Genuine question: When these Police or service personnel explain how they are trained to deal with conflict, do any of them ever suggest a handshake as a way of diffusing a tense situation?

 

[Simon Thomas]

Genuine question: When these Police or service personnel explain how they are trained to deal with conflict, do any of them ever suggest a handshake as a way of diffusing a tense situation?

PMSL Taff. No the content is usually related assertive non-confrontational words, dominant but not aggressive body langauage, etc. How to control, diffuse and manage the situation.

Can't recall a handshake between conflicting parties being discussed.

 

[Dixie]

A voluntary handshake defuses the situation. A forced one doesn't.

But if it works for Browner, all power to him.

These are wise words, and got me wondering how we might get to the voluntary handshake without forcing it. This situation came up in a U.12 match, where the referee's authority is pretty much unquestioned - not least because he stands head and shoulders above the players and is friends with their dad. An option at that age group might be for the ref to offer his own hand to the offender, then to the offended player, and then allow the players themselves to complete the gesture. No harm done if they don't.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Nice idea Dixie - I am totally in support of such an idea up to say U14 or maybe U15, important to develop behaviours and Browner eloquently sets out the need for the continued special Culture & Ethos of rugby ?

Adults do shake each others' hands after an incident, and again I totally support and applaud that, but my point was that it is not a referee's management tool in adult matches at any Society referee levels.

 

[Davet]

Imagine a world where

....teachers can't ask kids to hand over the knuckle duster because there is nothing in the school handbook that says you can't carry one.

It an offensive weapon, simply call the police.

...or police officer says c'mon lads ....stop being disrespectful to that old age pensioner....only to hear that "No! - there's no law against disrespecting the old bat "

Respect is never to be given, it only be earned. And sonce there is no Law against disrepsect the police officer would do well to consider his options when he does get that reply.

.... or the employment world where the boss asks someone to do something they don't agree with or understand or want to do

Your boss cannot ask you to do something that you do not agree with or want to do - one tried to do that with me once - my notice was on his desk before the day was out. Never ever do something you feel is wrong just to keep the peace.

 

[didds]

cheers all

 

[SimonSmith]

Your boss cannot ask you to do something that you do not agree with or want to do - one tried to do that with me once - my notice was on his desk before the day was out. Never ever do something you feel is wrong just to keep the peace.

He can. What you do with that request is up to you.

In America it can get you fired.

 

[Davet]

In England it resulted in me resigning.

But I'm the one who has to live with me afterwards, and I don't treat customers as if they were there to be raped.

 

[Cave Dweller]

Put it like this. Treat them as Israel and Arab countries surrounding it. On TV they will shake hands and smile but you know conflicts never get solved with a shake of hands.

With first sign of handbags slinging you need to stamp your authority and send them to bin. Both of them. Players will then behave better as they have seen such things won't be tolerated.