Weird In-Goal Play Question

[Phil E]

You sir are correct. Encourage the game not the pedantry.

I would also understand what is meant by these terms if used in a rugby game:
Umpire
Double Movement
Touchdown
Fair catch
Let him up
Punt
Linesman
etc
etc

That is no reason to use them. Rather than pedantry, lets call it "correct use of terminology".

 

[Dickie E]

Not really. Just call it what it is, "In Goal". Otherwise you might as well call it a wheelbarrow. :nono:

The correct term is "in-goal". Please use that or the next thing you know we'll be using knock-on and line-out and and then the world will end.

 

[Phil E]

The correct term is "in-goal".

in goal
In-goal
In-Goal
IN-GOAL

They all sound the same when spoken. However since you mention it.........

Please use that or the next thing you know we'll be using knock-on

What? like they do in the law book?

[LAWS]Law 12 - Knock-on or Throw-forward.[/LAWS]

 

[Davet]

For me the essence of a charge down is that the charger had acted essentially before he knew quite where the ball was going, and had no time to react to it.

Surely the essence of a charge down is that charger knows pretty much exactly what is happening - the kicker is about to kick, and he can see pretty much where the kick is going and does his level best to get in the way and block the ball in the air? It is a deliberate act.

 

[TigerCraig]

Agree - a charge down is a deliberate act. Anything else is a rebound.

 

[Dickie E]

poor old jdeagro - must be thinking what a right lot of nutters we've got here.

 

[Dickie E]

in goal
In-goal
In-Goal
IN-GOAL

They all sound the same when spoken. [/LAWS]

Ah, a part-time pedant. A bit like being half pregnant.

 

[Ian_Cook]

I would also understand what is meant by these terms if used in a rugby game:
Umpire
Double Movement
Touchdown
Fair catch
Let him up
Punt
Linesman
etc
etc

That is no reason to use them. Rather than pedantry, lets call it "correct use of terminology".

Touchdown. We actually do have that term in the LotG, but its two words, not one, and actually means something else...

[LAWS]Law 22 In-Goal DEFINITIONS
When defending players are first to ground the ball in in-goal, the defending players make a touch down.[/LAWS]
....so its one that should be avoided.


Fair Catch. This actually WAS the correct term for the Mark in 1996. OB will probably know when it changed back to being just mark...

[LAWS]LAW 16. FAIR-CATCH (MARK)

(a) A player makes a fair-catch when in his twenty-two meters area or in his In-goal, he, having at least one foot on the ground, cleanly catches the ball direct from a kick by one of his opponents and, at the same time, he exclaims "Mark!"

(b) A free kick is awarded for a fair-catch.
[/LAWS]

Punt. I don't know why you think this is incorrect.....

[LAWS]Laws of the Game - General Definitions
Punt: The ball is dropped from the hand or hands and kicked before it touches the ground.[/LAWS]

IMO, it is far more important to give the OP (an inexperienced referee asking a legitimate question) some good information and answers to HIS QUESTION, rather than side-track the thread into with nitpicking irrelevancies or getting jobsworth over his use of some colloquial terminology.

The correct "words" are not important to start with, so long as we all understand what he means. The refinements of correct terminology can come later.

 

[OB..]

I would also understand what is meant by these terms if used in a rugby game:
Umpire
Double Movement
Touchdown
Fair catch
Let him up
Punt
Linesman
etc
etc

That is no reason to use them. Rather than pedantry, lets call it "correct use of terminology".

Punt is defined in the Laws. Umpire and Fair Catch were rugby terms in the 19th century, and the latter survived up to 1999. "Double movement" misleads a lot of people and is therefore bad. "Let him up" is a basic law error.

Why the need to exaggerate? Yes it is theoretically better to avoid possible confusion by using the terms in the Laws, but in reality does anybody do that all the time? Is "jackler" in the laws? Or "tackle zone"?

 

[OB..]

Surely the essence of a charge down is that charger knows pretty much exactly what is happening - the kicker is about to kick, and he can see pretty much where the kick is going and does his level best to get in the way and block the ball in the air? It is a deliberate act.

Of course it is a deliberate act. I did not say otherwise. He guesses where the kick is going and does indeed do his level best to block it, but has effectively no chance to react to the actual kick because he is too close.

[LAWS]Charge down. If a player charges down the ball as an opponent kicks it, or immediately after the kick, it is not a knock-on, even though the ball may travel forward.[/LAWS]

 

[Ian_Cook]

Is "jackler" in the laws? Or "tackle zone"?

Or "fetcher", "gate", "clean-out", "ankle-tap", "forward pass", "truck and trailer", "feed", "blindside", "openside", "gain line", "breakdown", "grubber kick", "wipers kick", "offload" and "turnover".


NONE of these commonly used rugby terms are listed or defined in the Laws of the Game, but it doesn't stop any of us from knowing what they mean and using them when we watch, play or referee the game.

 

[jdeagro]

Hi All,

Well first I would like to preface this by saying I didn't expect so much activity and replies to so quickly to my question. Thank you for all your input. Secondly, I am just used to the common American terminology from where I've been playing rugby. Though I do try to speak and convey my thoughts in the most proper way I can, so I will try to keep in mind to use "in-goal" instead of "try zone". Thirdly, I could not prevent myself from glancing (which led into reading) what you posted Dixie. I do believe I comprehended what further information you were providing us with, (I would say I'm decently knowledgeable of the game from a player standpoint at least.) Thank you for this extra information (I learned something new.) Finally, I was pretty sure it would result in a 22DO, but when I saw it occur the referee awarded a 5M scrum to the attacking team A. I would say charge downs have always been a weird thing to wrap my head around personally, in different situations, and I just always wanted to confirm what should have resulted from the scenario I mentioned earlier. Finally, I would like to state that I don't think any of you are nutters (in regards to what Dickie E said.) I love rugby, and I'm glad for all your responses.

Thank You again,
-Jon DeAgro

 

[didds]

We're NOT nutters?

How disappointing to learn that after all this time on this (wholly excellent!) forum/mutual support group!

;-)

didds

 

[Dixie]

If you are the OP, don't read this.

Why?

Its 100% correct, and as ST says, a referees do get this wrong. Why would the OP (an inexperienced referee) not want to get the Law right?

Start as you mean to go on!!!

IMO, it is far more important to give the OP (an inexperienced referee asking a legitimate question) some good information and answers to HIS QUESTION, rather than side-track the thread with nitpicking irrelevancies.

I see you managed to work out the answer to your own question then! Well done. :wink:

 

[Ian_Cook]

I see you managed to work out the answer to your own question then! Well done. :wink:

Bollocks to you mate!! You have misrepresented what I said.

You think you were being clever, but what you were being was a dickhead!!

What I said was STILL related to his in-goal question, bitching about incorrect terminology was the side-track!

 

[Simon Thomas]

Punt is defined in the Laws. Umpire and Fair Catch were rugby terms in the 19th century, and the latter survived up to 1999. "Double movement" misleads a lot of people and is therefore bad. "Let him up" is a basic law error.

Why the need to exaggerate? Yes it is theoretically better to avoid possible confusion by using the terms in the Laws, but in reality does anybody do that all the time? Is "jackler" in the laws? Or "tackle zone"?

Terms like jackler, tackle zone etc are in numerous IRB and RFU (and I suspect many other Home Union) memos, documents, coach / referee training materials, etc.

 

[Dickie E]

Or "fetcher",

Isn't that a chap who extracts ***** out of another chap's ******? :shrug:

I've got a picture somewhere ....

 

[OB..]

Isn't that a chap who extracts ***** out of another chap's ******? :shrug:

I've got a picture somewhere ....

Please collect your coat on the way out.

 

[jdeagro]

Hey,

Also, I was just wondering when / how does my account become off the new member status so I can access other forum topics?

Thanks,
-Jon DeAgro

 

[DrSTU]

I believe it's once you get past 10 posts.

Hey,

Also, I was just wondering when / how does my account become off the new member status so I can access other forum topics?

Thanks,
-Jon DeAgro