Kick At Goal - Ball Over Top Of Post

[leaguerefaus]

Unless the referee is 100% sure, he should take the word of the TJ who is in better position.

 

[Dickie E]

Unless the referee is 100% sure, he should take the word of the TJ who is in better position.

Well, there are TJs and then there are TJs. Including 8 year old kid who's more of a ball boy than a TJ, big, fat & slow ex-player with a can in one hand and a t-shirt in the other and club official who quite happily points out all of the opposition indiscretions and none of his own team.

 

[The Fat]

Well, there are TJs and then there are TJs. Including 8 year old kid who's more of a ball boy than a TJ, big, fat & slow ex-player with a can in one hand and a t-shirt in the other and club official who quite happily points out all of the opposition indiscretions and none of his own team.

Agree.
I had one a few seasons ago. Conversion kick 1m left of left post. Two TJs pulled from crowd both raise flags when ball missed to left side of posts by at least 2m and only half way up post so no problem judging a high kick. No whistle from me and several clear signals to scorers that kick unsuccessful.

 

[The Fat]

The ball sailed directly over the left post from my perspective. I was standing behind the left post, about two feet to the right of it facing inward the field of play and I was back on the dead ball line. (The kick came from a far right side of the field angle, about 10 meters from the touch line, from the kickers perspective.)

There's another discussion right there. In Aus we are taught to take up a different position which is alongside and just inside the post which also helps if the ball goes just over or just under the crossbar.
Interested to hear what other Unions/Societies teach their AR's re positioning.

 

[leaguerefaus]

Well, there are TJs and then there are TJs. Including 8 year old kid who's more of a ball boy than a TJ, big, fat & slow ex-player with a can in one hand and a t-shirt in the other and club official who quite happily points out all of the opposition indiscretions and none of his own team.

Fair point, Dickie. I meant in the situation in which there is a competent person running touch (which may be rarer than I thought).

 

[didds]

FWIW I've always stood next to the post underneath the bar for these reasons also. Just seeme dobvious to me.

For PKs ready to leg it behind the DBL if the kick is clearly going to miss/land short and play remain live.

didds

 

[Dickie E]

For PKs ready to leg it behind the DBL if the kick is clearly going to miss/land short and play remain live.

I would suggest just hugging the post in this situation

 

[talbazar]

if the AR says no and the ref says yes, the AR has a credibility problem

When I ref, being with ARs or TJs and there's a disagreement between the two flags or between the flags and myself, I'll call time off and have a quick chat.
Could be: "What did you see?"
Or: "I saw it above the post, what's your view?"
Or even: "You guys are kidding me, right, that landed a metre before the try line"

What is said only barely matters. But for everyone, teams and supporters, you managed an exception and it makes everyone look good
(or at least not worse :booty

As for the OP, agree with the law definition "between the post".

Cheers,
Pierre.

 

[Ian_Cook]

There's another discussion right there. In Aus we are taught to take up a different position which is alongside and just inside the post which also helps if the ball goes just over or just under the crossbar.
Interested to hear what other Unions/Societies teach their AR's re positioning.

We were taught to line up on or near (at least half way to) the dead ball line directly opposite where the kick was coming from, i.e. from the two TJ's perspectives, the kicker is "framed" by the crossbar and uprights. This is very similar to how you see touchies lined up in NRL and UK Superleague

We were expressly taught not to wait anywhere near the base of the posts as this could cause us to have to look straight up as the ball passed over (potentially losing directional perspective as the only reference point in your field of view became the post). It is also very easy to "lose" the ball against the sky on one of those bright, high-overcast days.

Additionally we were taught to make a positive indication of what we had seen; flag straight up for a successful kick - flag low and waved from side to side for a miss. (doing nothing meant you weren't sure if it went over or not)

 

[Accylad]

I am new to this AR game....

However. Things I have learned....

No wipe out for a miss.

If it looks like it has gone over the post the decision is it clearly missed or clearly was inside.

If it's to my post, "my call". Communicate the decision and then Both either up or down.

Post position is pretty adjacent, to the inside. My AR coach does not favour "one up, one back".

If sun might make seeing the ball difficult, advise ref before kick you might need his help .

 

[OB..]

I am new to this AR game....

However. Things I have learned....

No wipe out for a miss.

At my levels there is no set protocol, and certainly no "my call" between the TJs. The wipeout signal therefore makes it clear what that TJ thinks, whereas no signal means he is not sure, or wasn't looking, etc.

 

[Dickie E]

At my levels there is no set protocol, and certainly no "my call" between the TJs.

over here, experienced TJs/ARs will generally call "your post" or "my post". One flag up and one flag down is very untidy.

 

[crossref]

At my levels there is no set protocol, and certainly no "my call" between the TJs. The wipeout signal therefore makes it clear what that TJ thinks, whereas no signal means he is not sure, or wasn't looking, etc.

+ me , I definitely want my TJs to give me a definite signal - goal or no goal. That signals to me that (1) they were paying attention and (2) they made a deicsion


On the odd case where I have 1 up 1 down, or otherwise have to make my own judgement in a tricky case, I always make sure to tell both catpains what the decision was --- so that we don't have any dispute an hour later when there's only 2 points in it!

 

[DocY]

I like the definite signal for a failed kick. It'd be nice if this were adopted everywhere and was known to players. It would make the one up one down situation far easier to handle: "one AR wasn't sure, but the other was".

You'd be screwed by a one up one wiping motion, though!

 

[OB..]

over here, experienced TJs/ARs will generally call "your post" or "my post". One flag up and one flag down is very untidy.

Even experienced TJs (my levels) don't usually work as a pair.
I expect AR's to be trained to work together.

I still fail to see any actual disadvantage in having a specific signal for a failed kick.

 

[Dickie E]

I like the definite signal for a failed kick. It'd be nice if this were adopted everywhere and was known to players. It would make the one up one down situation far easier to handle: "one AR wasn't sure, but the other was".

You'd be screwed by a one up one wiping motion, though!

So you'd like to see a wiping motion if an AR was certain it missed or if was uncertain either way?

 

[OB..]

So you'd like to see a wiping motion if an AR was certain it missed or if was uncertain either way?

If the ARs agree, I would like to see a wiping motion. If the ARs cannot agree, they will have comms to tell the referee.

I have heard the occasional comment from spectators that the referee made the decision because the ARs couldn't be sure ie gave no signal.

 

[Dickie E]

If the ARs agree, I would like to see a wiping motion. If the ARs cannot agree, they will have comms to tell the referee.

I have heard the occasional comment from spectators that the referee made the decision because the ARs couldn't be sure ie gave no signal.

question was directed to DocY

 

[DocY]

So you'd like to see a wiping motion if an AR was certain it missed or if was uncertain either way?

Certain it'd missed. Hopefully you'd not get two conflicting certainties, but I think it'd make it easier as a ref to see "he's unsure, he's sure it missed, it missed".

Of course, a bit of communication between the ARs so they both signal the same thing would be lovely (and render this system unnecessary) and I'd doubt TJs who wouldn't communicate to be aware of any such directive, but I live in hope.

 

[crossref]

The very few times I have had TJs give opposite signals is because - well - pretty obviously it's because they disagree!

I don't see how any amount of communication between them would help, them being volunteer TJs, one from each club, if they genuinely disagree neither of them are going to cede to the other.


Even with ARs, I'm actually not really a fan of the confer-and-agree model.
Even with appointed ARs if they disagree, or one or other of them couldn't see, then I'd like to know that there is that uncertainty, and I'll talk to them both. I can then also add what I saw into the mix to get to the decision

I don't really want to be presented with a faked certainty, where none existed.