KO delay..what is acceptable?

[crossref]

Oppo had been briefed well ahead of time, but still couldn't think of anything better to do than a normal kick-off.

that's odd - was that because the oppo didn't really feel they deserved the PK?

what is the best move to do if you are starting the game with a PK?
- kick for goal, if you have a kicker good enough, but it's too far for a grass-roots game
- kick for touch (boring)
- form up as if for a normal kick off, scrum left scrum left etc, wait till the oppo are all meekly lined up opposite and then quick tap and run right?

 

[Decorily]

I just don't think the Laws allow you to give a PK for delaying the start.

Personally, I don't get involved in this. I make sure both teams have clear indications of the KO time, and if they are in sight I give them a 5 min warning, but i wouldn't ever go and fetch them.

It's dangerous to give orders 'come outside' where you have no sanction if they don't obey. you just look foolish.

Well actually, isn't it the referees responsibility to get both teams out on the pitch not the coaches?

 

[didds]

Well actually, isn't it the referees responsibility to get both teams out on the pitch not the coaches?

law reference?

didds

 

[Stuartg]

I've tried to get across to teams that it just pisses referees off when sides play these late arrival mind games. Just keep drip feeding the message.

 

[TigerCraig]

As said above. here whether in juniors or seniors the players are to be on the park 2 mins before scheduled kick off. At scheduled kick off time, the watch starts (and we have no time on for any reason except in first grade so they are just wasting their own playing time). At 10 mins past scheduled kick off, forfeit.

Best thing I saw was in a game of Aussie Rules where one team was late getting on. As the umpire starts the game in AR, there is no need for both teams to be on the field. The umpire got frustrated, bounced the ball, the team on the field grabbed it, ran down and scored then as they headed back to the middle the oppos were charging out. Very funny.

 

[menace]

I think you're a bit soft over there. They know full well what time is kickoff, you even give them reminders. Anything after that and they're just taking the p!ss out of you. It's surely not your job to hold their hands out onto the pitch? (I hope you don't wipe their nose too?). What's to stop you just starting the clock or shortening the game so that you finish on your planned/ scheduled time like what I suggested above (and is working for us here).

We had coaches (junior) continuing to warm up and run set pieces well after they were given reminders, and then just ambling on the field 5-10 minutes late when they wanted to. It was getting out of hand. When they realised their game time was being shortened by that time, they started to get the message.

 

[FlipFlop]

Wasn't there a game at Richmond, where the ref started with only 1 team? I think he FK Richmond for time wasting, as they refused to leave the changing room. They came out to see the opposition scoring a try....

 

[oldman]

FlipFlop it was Old Albanins, I know as I was there!

 

[Browner]

I'd hazzard a guess that it's a regular tactic, and i also bet that it would be one they stopped doing as soon as it was punished this way.

Deliberate delaying pre-kick off must surely be considered dissent.

I mean, you ask a player to remove a piece of clothing and he doesn't it's a RC. So with this Law benchmark, surely the appropriate sanction would be to YC the Captain [adults ] or RC the Coach [Juniors] ...... why not?

It's not in the spirit of the game, they are clearly dissenting the authority of the referee, it's a manufactured and contrived situation that must be sent a clear message.

If there is no sanction, then they could deliberately wait 15+ mins without any consequence.....no thanks - not on my watch ! :yellow:

 

[andyscott]

Just PK for a deliberate offence, delaying the game.

Then if they are not out, PK again, on the third YC the skipper (when he comes out)
21 pts and a player down, they wont be out late again.

If they complain to the league, they will probably be fined with misconduct

 

[Decorily]

http://www.irb.com/mm/document/training/0/rugbyrefinpractice_4

law reference?

didds

I think you're a bit soft over there. They know full well what time is kickoff, you even give them reminders. Anything after that and they're just taking the p!ss out of you. It's surely not your job to hold their hands out onto the pitch? (I hope you don't wipe their nose too?)
.

I refer you both to a document published by IRB as a guide to referees - Rugby refereeing in practice, a guide for rugby referees.

Please see page 8. 'Running onto the playing enclosure'


Menace, note who first published this booklet!

 

[TigerCraig]

Our comp rules:

Juniors:

6.3 TIME OF MATCHES
(A) Teams shall be ready to take the field two (2) minutes prior to their scheduled kick-off time
(B) Teams shall take the field when requested by the Match referee.
(C) If a Team fails to take the field with at least the Minimum Number of Players within ten (10) minutes of the Scheduled Game Time, they shall forfeit the Match.
(D) All Matches must finish two (2) minutes before the scheduled starting time of the next Match.
(E) The time for each half will be equal at all times.
(F) If a Match starts late for whatever reason and the Match will not be completed two (2) minutes before the scheduled starting time of the next Match then the time for each half and the Match will be reduced accordingly. However if there is no Match immediately following then this Competition Rule may be waived by agreement by both Teams, a Club Official of the Home Team and the referee.

Seniors:

12. MATCH TIMING
12.1 The duration of matches and kick-off times shall be:

Grade Each Half Kick Off
1st 40 mins 3:15pm
2nd 35 mins 2:00pm
Colts 35 mins 12:45pm
3rds 30 mins 11:40am
4ths 25 mins 10.45am
Sutherland Cup 25 mins Determined by home team, but no later than 12pm
Halligan Cup 25 mins Determined by home team
Radford Cup 35 mins Determined by home team

12.2 Any club which is not prepared to commence a match within ten minutes of the official kick-off time shall forfeit the match without right of appeal. The referee shall note such occurrence on the result sheet.

12.3 Any time lost in commencing a match for whatever reason shall be deducted from the allocated time for that match.

12.4 Injury time will be added to the playing time in first grade matches only.

 

[Browner]

http://www.irb.com/mm/document/training/0/rugbyrefinpractice_4




I refer you both to a document published by IRB as a guide to referees - Rugby refereeing in practice, a guide for rugby referees.

Please see page 8. 'Running onto the playing enclosure'


Menace, note who first published this booklet!

It won't open ....???

 

[TigerCraig]

It basically says that it is the refs responsibility to get the teams on the park - but doesn't suggest what to do if they ignore him/her

 

[didds]

I mean, you ask a player to remove a piece of clothing and he doesn't it's a RC. So with this Law benchmark, surely the appropriate sanction would be to YC the Captain [adults ] or RC the Coach [Juniors] ...... why not?

Because in the laws you can't red card a non player - so that's the coach idea out of the window.

As for the skipper - what if he isn't the reason for not starting on time? You may be penalising the person that isn't the issue. And even at U16 its more likely the players aren't out yet because of the coach not because of the skipper.

Stupid idea.

There isn't an answer unless competition rules encompass something. The OPPOSITION are having their time wasted too. The ref is having his time wasted. And the team that is wasting time IS taking the piss. But them the rubs.

The nearest I get to as a suggestion is starting with a PK for ungentlemanly conduct (or whatever the wording is). Which may be totally toothless in a U16 game where the PK won't be kicked for goal and may even struggle to find touch.

didds

 

[didds]

It basically says that it is the refs responsibility to get the teams on the park - but doesn't suggest what to do if they ignore him/her

Great.

so in fact its useful if printed as something to wipe your arse on. FFS.

didds

 

[TigerCraig]

Great.

so in fact its useful if printed as something to wipe your arse on. FFS.

didds

Probably printed on glossy paper, so not even that :holysheep:

 

[menace]

http://www.irb.com/mm/document/training/0/rugbyrefinpractice_4

I refer you both to a document published by IRB as a guide to referees - Rugby refereeing in practice, a guide for rugby referees.

Please see page 8. 'Running onto the playing enclosure'

Menace, note who first published this booklet!

It won't open ....???

Great.

so in fact its useful if printed as something to wipe your arse on. FFS.

didds

If it's the one I'm thinking of then I'm fully aware of it, considering the last update of it (for ARU, which i don't think irb used?) was by one of the referee coaches in my association (a truly fine man of 80 years young that you're ever likely to meet, and he's still assisting junior referees!). But it's just a best practice guideline not a laws booklet? I have no objection doing what you can to assist to get the teams out on the field on time and fortunately 95% of the time they do, but there comes a point which when they ignore you that you have some options. Even the gentleman I mentioned above supports going out to the centre and starting 'time on'. (Who is the sole judge of time and all that jazz? The referee!). As mentioned above, we are backed by local rules that allows us to enforce it which means the teams at fault have no recourse to blame the referee, and the non - offenders can take the offending team to task too.

I'm merely suggesting there is probably no reason why you can't pressure your local unions over there to do the same, and perhaps if they won't then, sorry, take the matter into your own hands. You're a volunteer and have schedules in your life too, why the f@ck should they waste your time just cause they want to take the p!ss or play mind games with the other team. If you've got time to give, then fine, let them take as long as they like but don't whine about it.

 

[RobLev]

...

There isn't an answer unless competition rules encompass something. The OPPOSITION are having their time wasted too. The ref is having his time wasted. And the team that is wasting time IS taking the piss. But them the rubs.

The nearest I get to as a suggestion is starting with a PK for ungentlemanly conduct (or whatever the wording is). Which may be totally toothless in a U16 game where the PK won't be kicked for goal and may even struggle to find touch.

didds

Why not just start the game on time? If the delaying team has the kick-off, PK for time-wasting gives the opposition an unopposed quick tap and run in for try. If not, then opposition just kicks 10m, gathers and scores. Repeat as required?

 

[TigerCraig]

Why not just start the game on time? If the delaying team has the kick-off, PK for time-wasting gives the opposition an unopposed quick tap and run in for try. If not, then opposition just kicks 10m, gathers and scores. Repeat as required?

It could be argued that Law 13.4 requires an opposition team to be on the field and behind the 10 metre line for a kick off to be taken

Law 7 says the match starts with a kick off, so it could also be argued that until there is a kick off there is no game of rugby so no sanction for time-wasting or unsporting behaviour can be imposed