KO delay..what is acceptable?

[Decorily]

Refn an U16 game due to KO at 1/2 past. Very cold wind and driving rain. Away team on pitch at 20 past. No sign of home team at 26 past so I go to dressing room door (closed) and blow whistle. Half past and no response so knock on dressing room door "Time please Coach". Go to pitch where away team are nicely chilled and await home team who stroll out at 23 mins to and ask "How much time have we" to which I respond "None...get ready to kick".

OK...so not a major issue, but given that I was volunteering my time and opposition were ready for the designated time I am curious to know what others feel is acceptable.

 

[Toby Warren]

If it's half past I'd got them out ready to play for half past.

Rather than blowing the whistle at 26 mins past - it would have been a knock then and a 2 mintues lads.
(then a 1 min and then a 'now please' if requried).

Now when I'm doing a game I agree a time table with each team - what time for studs f/r briefing / toss and if they are going back inside what time I will know / expect them out and if they need a knock.

I find it very funny listening to the inane stuff they say to each other to get in the zone as well

 

[FlipFlop]

I assume you mean 32 not 23.....

For me: at 25 I call the team out. If they don't come, I open the door, and blow the whistle. I don't leave them in there. If they don't respond, I blow the whistle louder, and say "now please". If you just walk away, they will take their time. So don't give them that option.

 

[Toby Warren]

You blow your whistle inside the changing rooms?

Never thought to do that nor never seen (heard!) that in all my playing time.

Surely a knock is better - no doubt what you're after then

 

[menace]

Over here, junior games must finish on time so we can get through all games before dark. Teams have the responsibility to be on the ground ready to go. They still get their 5 and 2 min reminders but if they're not there (within a few minutes) referees have been advised to just start 'time on'. If the non-offending team complain because of the shortened game then they take it up (appeal) with the union to sort out.

It's amazing how quick they move when you tell them 'times started'!

 

[Decorily]

I assume you mean 32 not 23.....

No, actually I do mean 23.....as in 7mins after scheduled KO time.

Yes, I agree, I shouldn't have left the dressing area without them!

 

[FlipFlop]

You blow your whistle inside the changing rooms?

Only if they don't respond to the knock and the polite request. Amazing how it gets them moving. Perhaps 1 a season this happens. Normally the knock and polite request, or the knock and the "now" with me holding the door open, works. But if that doesn't - a loud blast tells them I mean NOW, not when they want.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Vets or U16 it works the same way for me.
Agree timetable for FR brief, studs check and a 5 minute warning then two minute knock and "I want you out immediately".

When you do the two minute knock and they don't move hold the door open, stay there and assertively shift them verbally. Still no action direct command to Coach/Team Manager and Skipper.

No need to blow a whistle - bit naff to be honest imho.

 

[winchesterref]

I give them a knock at 5 to go, and if not out I knock again at 2 minutes and hold the door until they come. Usually does the trick

 

[Shelflife]

Some coaches can be real knobs trying to get one over on the opposition, doing their warm up until 5mins to go and only then going into the dressing rooms to put their jersies on, having to chase up the team sheets etc.

the best one ever was yesterday when ready to KO i called to the sideline for a ball to be met with the response that its the branch responsibility to provide the ball, I just looked at him quizically with a :wtf: , was really tempted to go over and apologise that the branch had neglected to send a ball and call off the game (that would have just hurt the under age players). anyway a ball was thrown out and the game got underway but you really have to wonder why they would antagonise the ref with antics like these.

 

[Phil E]

Much as above, but I always do things a minute ahead of when I want them to do it.
i.e. 5 minute knock at 6 mins to kick off, 2 minute knock (out now please) at 3 mins to kick off.

Usually means I get them out on time.

 

[Decorily]

Some coaches can be real knobs...

you really have to wonder why they would antagonise the ref with antics like these.

Well I was well and truly wet, cold and p....d off and more so as it was my own Club that did it.

As a Coach I always tell my boys to respect the referee and kiss his ass if that is what it takes!

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Some coaches can be real knobs trying to get one over on the opposition, doing their warm up until 5mins to go and only then going into the dressing rooms to put their jersies on, having to chase up the team sheets etc.

.

Some can indeed. I did an U16 game a few years ago (the same one I abandoned after < 5 minutes) and the home team were still indoors as it approached (let's say 1130) KO. It was a short walk to the pitch - about 60m. I went in to the home chaging room and asked they go out now. "Just coming Sir" was the coaches reply. I (foolishly) took him at his word and went back to the pitch.

I got to the centre before I turned round and assumed I'd see them coming up the steps on to the pitch in the corner. No! I looked at the time it was now 1133. I went back to the corner down the steps across the carpark and down the corridor to the changing room. They were still in there. I opened the door and told them to get out now. The coach continued with his "team talk/running on the spot/squeezathon" or whatever they were doing. This time I stayed 'til they'd left and asked the coach what he was trying to achieve. This was awkward as essentially I was doing it as a club ref and the coach was the coach of my lad's team. Needless to say he had annoyed me & annoyed the visitors (who had stopped out during the whole of this toing and froing).

We were approaching 1140 by the time we kicked off. I was in a foul mood and that probably contributed to me abandoning the game. Another nobody thinking he's the coach of England playing Fergusonesque mind games with the opposition.

That said I learnt a lot from it and certainly I find the teams at my level are organised enough to do boots, PMBs, go in, come out, go in, come out without me upsetting them or vice versa.

If I need to knock I have a routine similar to PhilE

 

[leaguerefaus]

...was really tempted to go over and apologise that the branch had neglected to send a ball and call off the game...

That would have made for a hilarious game report. Not too sure what your society and the league would have thought of you though

 

[MiniRef]

If delaying tactics, does anybody start the match with a penalty? Not sure if in the Laws, but could be appropriate?

 

[leaguerefaus]

The idea of starting a with a PK was discussed in another thread (something to do with getting a verbal in the pre-match check). I believe (not completely sure though) that the consensus was that you could not. I stand to be corrected.

 

[didds]

I assume you mean 32 not 23.....

For me: at 25 I call the team out. If they don't come, I open the door, and blow the whistle. I don't leave them in there. If they don't respond, I blow the whistle louder, and say "now please". If you just walk away, they will take their time. So don't give them that option.

so what do you do if you having not walked away they continue to stay in the room?

didds

 

[Dixie]

The idea of starting a with a PK was discussed in another thread (something to do with getting a verbal in the pre-match check). I believe (not completely sure though) that the consensus was that you could not. I stand to be corrected.

I have started with a PK on a very cold day with the changing rooms a long way from the pitch (Aylesbury, if memory serves). Both teams out, I do captains together, studs and briefing of home team. Home skipper then says his lot are going back in. Away skipper says his lot are staying out. I tell home skipper I'm not going all that way to get him, so he needs to be sure to be on time for KO. I then do away team studs, brief, watch linout drills and cast around in my bag for extra layers. Home team arrive at the pitch 10 minutes late in clear act of gamesmanship, to be met with a PK to oppo. Oppo had been briefed well ahead of time, but still couldn't think of anything better to do than a normal kick-off.

I've had an advisor recommend this in the past. I'm happy it's not appropriate under the LoTG, but it's not a bad ploy nonetheless. problem is, who starts next half?

 

[MiniRef]

I have started with a PK on a very cold day with the changing rooms a long way from the pitch (Aylesbury, if memory serves). Both teams out, I do captains together, studs and briefing of home team. Home skipper then says his lot are going back in. Away skipper says his lot are staying out. I tell home skipper I'm not going all that way to get him, so he needs to be sure to be on time for KO. I then do away team studs, brief, watch linout drills and cast around in my bag for extra layers. Home team arrive at the pitch 10 minutes late in clear act of gamesmanship, to be met with a PK to oppo. Oppo had been briefed well ahead of time, but still couldn't think of anything better to do than a normal kick-off.

I've had an advisor recommend this in the past. I'm happy it's not appropriate under the LoTG, but it's not a bad ploy nonetheless. problem is, who starts next half?

Sounds good to me.
Given that you've done the Captains bit, you know you should KO and, therefore, who will KO for 2nd half. The penalty doesn't affect that. No problem.

 

[crossref]

I just don't think the Laws allow you to give a PK for delaying the start.

Personally, I don't get involved in this. I make sure both teams have clear indications of the KO time, and if they are in sight I give them a 5 min warning, but i wouldn't ever go and fetch them.

It's dangerous to give orders 'come outside' where you have no sanction if they don't obey. you just look foolish.