Fed up ...

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

he is from a Premiership club and he looked the part.

Just a tosser in a nice rain jacket!

 

[niall murphy]

Niall, " like to remind the coaches at the start that he should lead by example" - i wish i had said similar to this coach but he is from a Premiership club and he looked the part. his team were warming up a good hour beforehand and the prematch brief went well (if ignored later) so all signs looked good !

lesson learnt ...
i will tell all coaches "at the start that he should lead by example"

I learned this from another ref. and it gives you the high ground if there is the early signs, " Coach, we spoke at the start about example" If you are sending in a report then you can include the bit about the start and the reminder. (He ignored you twice ! )

 

[Davet]

Just a tosser in a nice rain jacket!

 

[Davet]

he is from a Premiership club

Then he should know better - and I would assume he is simply relying on his big background to throw his weight around and bully people into believing that he knows best.

"But - he's from ******, he must be good, and surely knows more than YOU, you grass roots ref, you"

:norc:

 

[L'irlandais]

Your question would seem to suggest that Murphy is not a common name in Ireland?

Not entirely all that common in these parts. It would seem that there are far more Murphys on your side of the Irish Sea, Phil. :biggrin:

 

[OB..]

"But - he's from ******, he must be good, and surely knows more than YOU, you grass roots ref, you"

:norc:

"Do you mind if our winger wears his Northampton socks?" (Michael Green, more or less.)

 

[Scienide]

Happens on this side of the pond, too. Quite frustrating. To the point where many Saturdays I'm left wondering why I'm there if that's the attitude from the coaches and players.

I was accused of bias the first game I reffed in Vancouver. I'd never even heard of either club in my life. Ridiculous.

Figured this was the opportune time to jump in. I played in Vancouver a couple of weeks ago. They take it seriously there.

It can be rough at times and I definitely feel for the refs in those games when my coach or teammates are giving them a hard time; especially when I know that the referee is correct.

I think, at least here in Canada, that some of it comes from the ice hockey
mentality towards referees. Occasionally after refereeing a kids tournament final you'll need an escort to your car from the dressing room.

 

[dave_clark]

begs the question of how much they have to pay the officials to do tournaments like that.

 

[ROY T]

Always disappointing when there is a problem coach or problem crowd. Every Refs tolerance level is different so what could be acceptable to one may be totally abusive and offensive to another.
I think it is better to ignore ,as far as possible ,their cutting and offensive comments and focus entirely on your game and if you can do it with a smile then all the better (they don,t like that).
If, however the abuse etc becomes unacceptable to you and you have previously had a word then I would inform Coach/captain of the offending team or their support that if there is further incident the match will terminate and their club reported to the Union. No club likes this to happen.
My Society have download abuse forms which when completed start a procedure which make the club answerable.

 

[Deeps]

Figured this was the opportune time to jump in. I played in Vancouver a couple of weeks ago. They take it seriously there.

It can be rough at times and I definitely feel for the refs in those games when my coach or teammates are giving them a hard time; especially when I know that the referee is correct.

I think, at least here in Canada, that some of it comes from the ice hockey
mentality towards referees. Occasionally after refereeing a kids tournament final you'll need an escort to your car from the dressing room.

I would feel inclined to call the Captains in and ask them to explain to their senior representatives on the touch line that I am there to enjoy myself. If I feel that there are individuals in the crowd that are becoming abusive or threatening such that I am no longer enjoying myself then the game will stop until those individuals leave the playing area. If they do not wish to leave then I will gladly do so.

 

[Scienide]

I would feel inclined to call the Captains in and ask them to explain to their senior representatives on the touch line that I am there to enjoy myself. If I feel that there are individuals in the crowd that are becoming abusive or threatening such that I am no longer enjoying myself then the game will stop until those individuals leave the playing area. If they do not wish to leave then I will gladly do so.

I've seen that done before. Ref informs the benches that play will not restart until the individual in question leaves the rink. Usually, the other parents will usher the person out in a timely manner.

Thankfully, I haven't had to deal with that issue on a rugby pitch... yet.

 

[Dixie]

Scienide - welcome to forums! Great name.

 

[Taff]

... I think, at least here in Canada, that some of it comes from the ice hockey mentality towards referees. Occasionally after refereeing a kids tournament final you'll need an escort to your car from the dressing room.

begs the question of how much they have to pay the officials to do tournaments like that.

"Whatever it is ... it ain't enough" as my mate used to say.

 

[crossref]

I would feel inclined to call the Captains in and ask them to explain to their senior representatives on the touch line that I am there to enjoy myself. If I feel that there are individuals in the crowd that are becoming abusive or threatening such that I am no longer enjoying myself then the game will stop until those individuals leave the playing area. If they do not wish to leave then I will gladly do so.

that won't work if the captains are aged 15.. i
..in that situation you have to confront the coach himself. Which is tricky.

I have done it once. I stopped the game and asked the abusive coach to come on to the field so I could talk to him (I didn't want a touchline shouting match). Somewhat to my relief he did indeed come, and I said somethnig along the lines of the above and for the rest of the match he stopped shouting from sideline... (he muttered instead)

 

[spikeno10]

My son (15years old) who has done his ELRA 1&2 and was doing an Under 14 game. Just a friendly match and this was his first run out with the whistle. I was taking our under 15s on the other pitch so I had a society referee watch him and listened in to his pre-match brief.

As was good during that but ten minutes into the game the away coach starts commenting on every decision which comes against his team (so the observing ref told me afterwards). At a break in play Joe makes a big show of putting the watch off, walks to about 5 metres from touch and in front of the coach in question and delivers the following;

"Coach - you have a responsibility to your players and parents and to the game. If I hear another remark directed at one of my decisions you will find the view of the match from inside our clubhouse to be excellent."

Small ripple of applause from parents, huge apology from coach after the game.

Not sure I'd have done that way but it worked on the day for him.

 

[Simon Thomas]

I don't know the procedure, but someone like Simon Thomas will know how to proceed properly.

indeed I do as I am doing it right now after the last two weeks (which has led to two referees withdrawing from any more Sunday appointments) :

1. Pitch incursion and medical assistant insurance liability issues (club management/processes, safeguarding, and referee respect issues)

2. U16 referee abuse of the worst kind by a lunatic spectator (club ref appt but Society member)eiuty, and in the clubhouse too (RFU Referee Abuse case submitted)

3. U14 team who were totally out of control (swearing, stamping, punching) with club ref out of his depth and abused also (CB complaint made)

4. Club Colts web reports name and are highly critical of match referees by psuedo journalist trying to be clever (possible 5.12 action with CB)

CB Governance and Management Committees all informed, as is Club Referee Develoipment Manager, along with Society Executive Committee.

 

[crossref]

indeed I do as I am doing it right now after the last two weeks (which has led to two referees withdrawing from any more Sunday appointments) :
.

it's an interesting conundrum that amongst experienced refs Sunday youth games are regarded as less fun (because of sideline abuse) and more challenging (U17 and U18 being full of testosterone and no common sense) than adult Saturday games..

...yet it's on Sundays where vast numbers of people start refereeing.

club refs like me the typical progression follows your son
U13-U14-U15-U16-U17-U18 Oh, he's gone to uni... well perhaps it's finally time to join the society

- Are we doing it in the wrong order, and making it hard for ourselves?

 

[ex-lucy]

interesting and timely article by BCM today

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...-on-the-futility-of-abuse-from-touchline.html

 

[Casey Bee]

indeed I do as I am doing it right now after the last two weeks (which has led to two referees withdrawing from any more Sunday appointments) :

1. Pitch incursion and medical assistant insurance liability issues (club management/processes, safeguarding, and referee respect issues)

2. U16 referee abuse of the worst kind by a lunatic spectator (club ref appt but Society member)eiuty, and in the clubhouse too (RFU Referee Abuse case submitted)

3. U14 team who were totally out of control (swearing, stamping, punching) with club ref out of his depth and abused also (CB complaint made)

4. Club Colts web reports name and are highly critical of match referees by psuedo journalist trying to be clever (possible 5.12 action with CB)

CB Governance and Management Committees all informed, as is Club Referee Develoipment Manager, along with Society Executive Committee.

Simon, do you have any historical 'results' that you can share with regard to outcome of issues such as these that have affected referees?

 

[scrumpox2]

"we should invest as much money into educating parents on these issues as we do into formal coaching."

That won't be much then will it? Coach education is a revenue stream for the RFU isn't it? I or my club has paid for every coach education or training session provided. Am sure the HRFU organised stuff is subsidised but it's still money out every time. So I do not feel the RFU invests in me.

I fear the task for Simon Thomas and his oppos has got to get a lot worse before it gets better and by that I mean refs have got to put the complaint forms in, put the governance machine into gear and not do the easy thing of resentfully walking away and quitting. Refs societies should not feel they have to deal with these issues quietly, offending clubs have to be named and shamed, statistics published.

From U6 right through to Colts these age groups operate as clubs within clubs, often run in total isolation until the club has cause to intervene. The unruly element can flourish in this environment until someone does something. Don't assume that the club knows all about that lout of a Dad in the U12s, make the junior chairman, junior secretary or Club Ref Coordinator aware.

Clubs are run by volunteers, fully stretched and often having to perform more than one role. Consequently they are reactive rather than proactive; parents might get reminded about the code of conduct once a season, during registration probably, and that's it unless something comes up which puts parental behaviour back onto the club's horizon.

I think I have been fortunate this season to have only once encountered referee abuse with the team I coach. I brought this to the attention of the opposition coach after the game and he dealt with it internally. Turns out this spectator was a failed ref who the society no longer give games to but who thought that rejection gave him the right to hurl abuse at the ref of any game he witnessed.

So, it's not always the coaches to blame then, you have to watch for the resentful ex-refs too! Don't be an ex-ref, put the complaint form in.